Atheists - why?

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maybe he did? and the stupid humans made a terrible mistake by naming west east... and east west.








or maybe he did that mistake too?

Thank you

Intellectual cowardice? Because the language is ambiguous and party A understands differently from party B?

HOW many times must the supreme Philologer urge people to work toward mutually agreed terminology and take dissonant responses as suggesting a semantic gap rather thasn ndicating dishonesty or "intellectual cowardice"?

An unknowable percentage of human NONcommunication stems from sincere, intelligent, skeptical well intentioned people not handshaking on what they mean by hippie.

Nobody cares about your delusion. Whether god exists has nothing to do with whether you believe or believe in god.

Still no respond from Philologos... THAT is intellectual cowardice.

What delusion?


Agreed: Neither belief nor even "believe in" can actually ever make anything happen, and "god exists" whether or not anyone anywhere ever either believes or "believes in" his existence.

Interestingly, however, and as other people here can describe in much-finer detail, belief and/or "believe in" actually can produce an effect of one kind or another (at least "within" the person actually doing the believing).

Yep I was wondering if Philogos would have the confidance to put the evidence for "And no other explanation fits the data as well or better - Why, pray tell, would that necessarily involve faulty attribution" up for peer review?

You are deluded to think that there is actually something called god to cure your alcoholism. As you have noticed what the others said, your 'recovery' is actually due to your believe.

What you are doing here is no different from a 5 years old yelling 'I've got a Christmas present, Santa exists' or even worse.

No god ever gave me a renovated dollhouse for my then-homeless family of farting and snoring Furbies.

Santa: 1,000,000 god: 0

And at least Santa's a CHEERFUL old omniscient fat man.

01001011:

Neither you nor I - nor for that leejosepho - knows absolutely what did and did not produce the apparently undisputed effect.

leejosepho after analysis of data in hand and listening to a private communication has concluded God did it.

You, after analysis of a necessarily different body of data [whether with private communication you have not said and I do not guiess], have concluded this is improbable if not impossible and that the effect is rooted in psychology, if I have corrctly understood you.

But your estimate of probability does not invalidate leejosepho's conclusion.

Which, based on my own experiences, I am inclined to credit - though I cannot claim to KNOW in any normal sense. God has said nothing to me about leejosepho - or you.

Ah, Bethie!.

If you are right in saying that my belief in an external designer/creator entails his responsibility fofr all things, then I MUST beliefe that dollhouse and the Furbies were written into the plan by God.

Further, unless you have good reason to buy into Coca Cola, Hallmark, and really stupid songs, Nicolaos is NOT fat. He is NOT omniscient. There is no evidence that he is cheerful, in fact most testimonies suggest that apart from his stealth gift predilection he is rather dour and judgemental.

Certainly that is how I played him in our Latin class presentation in 9th grade.

You have that backwards. To wit:

Upon my simple willingness to take some specific transformational action, the insanity behind the mental/emotional aspect of my alcoholism has since been removed ... and I have now further-since given the credit for that to God simply because I had first also been told the credit should eventually go to Him ... and I now have no other viable place to set it down anyway.


As I have posted elsewhere ...

Belief of and/or or belief in and/or even outright disbelief of and/or disbelief in make/s absolutely no difference here ...

... and hence, your being right or wrong in what you have just said is also completely irrelevant (other than when speaking from within a given "philosophical position" or whatever).


I would definitely have to disagree with that "or even worse" part since no possible harm is being done, but yes, you have clearly expressed at least some of the essence of my own personal conclusion ...

"I have recovered, and so those folks just must have been right when they told me it made no difference at all as to what I either did or did not first believe and that He (God) actually could and would make that happen if I would just cooperate a bit by taking some specific action to find out!"

======================================
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information,
which is proof against all arguments and
which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -
that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
(author's name misplaced)
======================================

"Circumstances made him willing to believe. He humbly offered himself to his Maker - then he knew."
("A.A.", the book, page 57, emphasis added)

Last edited by leejosepho on 10 May 2011, 9:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

What about the millions of alcoholics out there that are still doomed by their addiction? Why is God not helping them?

The same new age nonsense again.

You may also say nobody 'knows absolutely' how old is the earth. Therefore we cannot invalidate a YEC's conclusion that the Earth is 6000 years old.

I am still waiting for your explanation why God does not make the sun rise from the west.

Willing to believe = willing to delude yourself enough that you cannot distinguish what is true and what is absurdity.

In complete simplicity: Because ...

1) They have not yet asked, and/or
2) They have yet to be been "shown the way", and/or
3) They have yet to actually go through with the necessary process even if they have asked and have been shown ...

"If you have decided you want what we have and you are willing to go to any length to get it -
then you are ready to take [specific and well-proved] steps [we have already discovered to actually work]."
("A.A.", the book, page 58)

Editorial comment: Only "Santa Claus theology" is typically employed by religious people who attempt to "Christianize" the Twelve Steps ...

... and in cases like that, many still-suffering alcoholics who actually do want to recover and who actually are willing to do what is required/necessary are nevertheless being fed bad information ...

... and within the realm of humanism, that very same kind of thing happens throughout "today's AA". Hence, my own first "A.A. sponsor" or "spiritual guide" (as some would say), and in 1981, offered this caution to me right up front:

"There are people all around you who will/can take your very life with bad information, so you must (if you wish) read 'Alcoholics Anonymous', the book, in order to know who and what to listen to even in an 'today's AA' meeting."

However, I later learned he had actually picked that up from an "real A.A." old-timer who had said something like this as far back as maybe even the 1960s:

"Considering the things I am hearing in 'AA' today, I am beginning to believe bad information is now killing more alcoholics that is alcohol, itself!"

Note: I do not know the actual age of that recording I have on hand.


**becomes somewhat sentimental**

I have yet to actually meet any of the folks who have truly been most-influential and -helpful in my life, the folks who wrote the book, yet they did leave this behind at the very end of our "Basic Text":

"We shall be with you in the Fellowship of the Spirit,
and you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny.
"May God bless you and keep you - until then."
(page 164)

But of course, I do still have that "big A.A. meeting hall in the sky" to experience! :wink: 8)