kladky
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 56
Location: Midwest U.S.
14 May 2011, 2:46 am
Vigilans wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Ventriloquism???? First of all, that's not in the Bible
Well, I mean... seriously, like we're making up this convoluted story just because the scripture makes little sense. So... I mean, seriously, it's just kind of silly.
I wish there was ventriloquism in the Bible. I'm sure it would be much more lively! The Ventriloquism Apocalypse doesn't sound so ominous, and the Ventriloquism Rapture brings to mind all the Christians 'Rapture' involving transporting them to some kind of crazy nether world where they are all ventriloquist puppets, fully conscious and being animated by the extraterrestrial reptilian shapeshifter masters who had been lying to us all, all along
Oh, my. I'm sad to see that an idea of mine has stumbled some of you. I'm surprised at some of you, not being open to a very simple idea. Very well. Let's see what I can do.
Webster's defines ventriloquism as "utterance which makes hearers believe that the sound comes from a source other than the actual speaker." Note that dummies or puppets are not mentioned in the definition. It simply means that the ventriloquist makes it look like his voice is coming from somewhere else. It is a skill and art and doesn't require puppets. If humans can do this with puppets, than surely a hypothetical spirit can do this with a snake. Perhaps, as I alluded to, you took me too literally in what I said.
I don't demand this explanation. It could very well be that Satan was in his angelic form and is simply called the Serpent as a metaphor. (Revelation 12:9) Or it could be (less likely to my mind) that he actually transformed into a snake. The point is it wasn't just a talking snake.
1. Snakes don't talk.
2. A snake talked to Eve, therefore...
3. The voice was not really a snake's.
14 May 2011, 3:01 am
kladky wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Ventriloquism???? First of all, that's not in the Bible
Well, I mean... seriously, like we're making up this convoluted story just because the scripture makes little sense. So... I mean, seriously, it's just kind of silly.
I wish there was ventriloquism in the Bible. I'm sure it would be much more lively! The Ventriloquism Apocalypse doesn't sound so ominous, and the Ventriloquism Rapture brings to mind all the Christians 'Rapture' involving transporting them to some kind of crazy nether world where they are all ventriloquist puppets, fully conscious and being animated by the extraterrestrial reptilian shapeshifter masters who had been lying to us all, all along
Oh, my. I'm sad to see that an idea of mine has stumbled some of you. I'm surprised at some of you, not being open to a very simple idea. Very well. Let's see what I can do.
Webster's defines ventriloquism as "utterance which makes hearers believe that the sound comes from a source other than the actual speaker." Note that dummies or puppets are not mentioned in the definition. It simply means that the ventriloquist makes it look like his voice is coming from somewhere else. It is a skill and art and doesn't require puppets. If humans can do this with puppets, than surely a hypothetical spirit can do this with a snake. Perhaps, as I alluded to, you took me too literally in what I said.
I don't demand this explanation. It could very well be that Satan was in his angelic form and is simply called the Serpent as a metaphor. (Revelation 12:9) Or it could be (less likely to my mind) that he actually transformed into a snake. The point is it wasn't just a talking snake.
1. Snakes don't talk.
2. A snake talked to Eve, therefore...
3. The voice was not really a snake's.
Sorry to disappoint, but "the snake was actually Satan" interpretation came later.
leejosepho
Veteran
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock
14 May 2011, 5:35 am
Andre_br wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
kladky wrote:
... Why, you ask, does God not stop suffering if He has the power to do it. Why does He not cure the blind, deaf, cancerous, or regenerate missing limbs? Well ...
One thing to keep in mind here in PPR is the fact many/most people asking those kinds of questions are not seeking answers for any reason other than to then just tear into them ...
Quote:
You often hear from Christians, "Jesus died for our sins." ... But ... where many Christians get it wrong is in thinking humanity's salvation was the most important thing for Jesus. It was important, but THE MOST important thing Jesus was here for was ... to prove that a perfect, sinless human follower of God could stand all the tests of evil and remain unblemished. In doing this, he proved God's way is the best ...
Yes, and then we have this ...
"Pure religion and vndefiled before God and the Father, is this, to visit the fatherlesse and widowes in their affliction, and to keepe himselfe vnspotted from the world." (KJV, 1611)
So simple, and yet so costly, eh?!
Most times people make "existential questions" they are not really asking anything. They already have firm believes and just want to prove to themselves or for their peers they are right by testing their "arguments" against others, much like in a friendly spar. So, most times when someone asks me something like "Do you believe in god?" out of the blue I just take it like they are meant just as an interjection that happen to present itself in a similar fashion than a question.
Yes, and I think it is a good thing when people can do that.
leejosepho
Veteran
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock
14 May 2011, 6:52 am
BurntOutMom wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
BurntOutMom wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
If I understand correctly, "Messiah" and/or "Christ" can simply mean "Anointed One", and that means there are many "Messiahs" mentioned in Scripture even if not literally mentioned in that specific way. And then, of course, and as you might already know, there are "types and shadows" throughout ... and that leaves someone like Moses fittingly called a "Messiah". But then within Christianity, of course, the word "Christ" seems quite-often mis-perceived as actually being some kind of holy (set apart) surname to be exclusively attached to "Jesus" ... and there is another reason I typically "refuse", as such, to use that word.
The OT specifically prophecies The Messiah that will come and make atonement for our sins. I have never heard anyone refer to Moses as a messiah. I would call him a prophet, but I don't know if that title is attributed to him in the texts either... My point is just that though messiah might translate to "anointed one"... when people speak of The Messiah, there is no mistake about whom they are talking about. We can molest intended definitions all night long, but that doesn't truly alter the original intent.
Again, we are mincing words and straying from points.
I had thought we were progressing along, but you can make the call there.
Personally, I also tend to hold the word "Messiah" in reserve for whoever is either coming or returning, and so yes, and especially among Christians, it is not all that common to think of Moses as (even a type of) a messiah. Overall, however, I thought your "logic" (as I saw things) showing why Christianity's "Jesus" could not be only half-man was brilliant!
Awe-shucks. And, I wasn't trying to shut you down, just redirect.. I hate it when the debate is reduced to throwing definitions back and forth.
Such is life with an Aspie, eh?! But really, here is a place where I get into a bit of a personal quandary ...
I definitely want to continue the conversation, but I only know two ways for that to happen:
1) You take the lead;
2) I take over!
14 May 2011, 7:22 am
Bethie
Veteran
Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,817
Location: My World, Highview, Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Earth, The Milky Way, Local Group, Local Supercluster
14 May 2011, 12:36 pm
14 May 2011, 2:03 pm
14 May 2011, 2:08 pm
kladky wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Ventriloquism???? First of all, that's not in the Bible
Well, I mean... seriously, like we're making up this convoluted story just because the scripture makes little sense. So... I mean, seriously, it's just kind of silly.
I wish there was ventriloquism in the Bible. I'm sure it would be much more lively! The Ventriloquism Apocalypse doesn't sound so ominous, and the Ventriloquism Rapture brings to mind all the Christians 'Rapture' involving transporting them to some kind of crazy nether world where they are all ventriloquist puppets, fully conscious and being animated by the extraterrestrial reptilian shapeshifter masters who had been lying to us all, all along
Oh, my. I'm sad to see that an idea of mine has stumbled some of you. I'm surprised at some of you, not being open to a very simple idea. Very well. Let's see what I can do.
Webster's defines ventriloquism as "utterance which makes hearers believe that the sound comes from a source other than the actual speaker." Note that dummies or puppets are not mentioned in the definition. It simply means that the ventriloquist makes it look like his voice is coming from somewhere else. It is a skill and art and doesn't require puppets. If humans can do this with puppets, than surely a hypothetical spirit can do this with a snake. Perhaps, as I alluded to, you took me too literally in what I said.
I don't demand this explanation. It could very well be that Satan was in his angelic form and is simply called the Serpent as a metaphor. (Revelation 12:9) Or it could be (less likely to my mind) that he actually transformed into a snake. The point is it wasn't just a talking snake.
1. Snakes don't talk.
2. A snake talked to Eve, therefore...
3. The voice was not really a snake's.
Okay, so it wasn't just a talking snake. It was a metaphysical evil spirit being talking through a snake. Very important distinction...
30 May 2011, 2:19 am
kladky
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 56
Location: Midwest U.S.
15 Jul 2011, 4:48 pm
15 Jul 2011, 4:58 pm
16 Jul 2011, 11:44 pm
17 Jul 2011, 12:18 am
Joker
Veteran
Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
17 Jul 2011, 2:13 pm
17 Jul 2011, 2:20 pm
JohnOldman
Velociraptor
Joined: 30 Mar 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 448
Location: Midwest USA (Switzerland is Where the Heart Is)
17 Jul 2011, 5:28 pm
