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Is there a God, and other discussions with an atheist

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Enigmawebs
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03 Oct 2011, 1:23 pm

Existence of God :idea:
This discussion reminded me of this.


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blunnet
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03 Oct 2011, 5:11 pm

These are my proofs (ontological arguments) that God exist:
#1
It's possible that God exists
therefore God exists

#2
The thought of God that looks after us is a nice thing
The thought of no god is a sad thing
therefore, God exists.

#3
Heaven is a nice place to live
Hell is eternal torment
therefore, God exists.

#4
Atheists are annoying
therefore, God exists.

#5
Without the ten commandments, people will do whatever they want and harm whoever they want
therefore, God exists.

#6
Next door neighbor's wife is so fine that she must have been designed intelligently,
therefore there is a designer,
therefore, God exists.



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03 Oct 2011, 5:28 pm

blunnet wrote:
These are my proofs (ontological arguments) that God exist:
#1
It's possible that God exists
therefore God exists

#2
The thought of God that looks after us is a nice thing
The thought of no god is a sad thing
therefore, God exists.

#3
Heaven is a nice place to live
Hell is eternal torment
therefore, God exists.

#4
Atheists are annoying
therefore, God exists.

#5
Without the ten commandments, people will do whatever they want and harm whoever they want
therefore, God exists.

#6
Next door neighbor's wife is so fine that she must have been designed intelligently,
therefore there is a designer,
therefore, God exists.

I do hope that you are not serious.

:roll:

Reason Proves Nothing

The Ontological Argument confuses a condition of judgment with a condition of reality. If one judges that a subject must necessarily have certain properties, it does not follow that the subject actually exists. Reason (by itself) cannot establish the existence of anything. In order to establish the existence of anything reason must be used in conjunction with experience. There are no analytic existential propositions; all are synthetic.

Faith Proves Nothing

Just because one, two, or many persons believe that proposition x is valid, their belief does not in any way contribute to the validity of proposition x; and no matter how popular a belief may be, popularity does not contribute in any way to the validity of that belief, either.



ruveyn
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03 Oct 2011, 5:46 pm

Fnord wrote:

Faith Proves Nothing

Just because one, two, or many persons believe that proposition x is valid, their belief does not in any way contribute to the validity of proposition x; and no matter how popular a belief may be, popularity does not contribute in any way to the validity of that belief, either.


Therefor discussing religion is a waste of time.

ruven



Fnord
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03 Oct 2011, 5:49 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Faith Proves Nothing

Just because one, two, or many persons believe that proposition x is valid, their belief does not in any way contribute to the validity of proposition x; and no matter how popular a belief may be, popularity does not contribute in any way to the validity of that belief, either.
Therefor discussing religion is a waste of time. ruven

Exactly. Nothing makes for a more stupid argument than one involving politics, religion, sexuality, or any combination thereof.



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03 Oct 2011, 5:55 pm

Fnord wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Faith Proves Nothing

Just because one, two, or many persons believe that proposition x is valid, their belief does not in any way contribute to the validity of proposition x; and no matter how popular a belief may be, popularity does not contribute in any way to the validity of that belief, either.
Therefor discussing religion is a waste of time. ruven

Exactly. Nothing makes for a more stupid argument than one involving politics, religion, sexuality, or any combination thereof.


I agree with you :wink:



cw10
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03 Oct 2011, 10:12 pm

Fnord wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Faith Proves Nothing

Just because one, two, or many persons believe that proposition x is valid, their belief does not in any way contribute to the validity of proposition x; and no matter how popular a belief may be, popularity does not contribute in any way to the validity of that belief, either.
Therefor discussing religion is a waste of time. ruven

Exactly. Nothing makes for a more stupid argument than one involving politics, religion, sexuality, or any combination thereof.


So this channel should be renamed "Philosophy"?

:)



Fnord
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03 Oct 2011, 10:18 pm

How about "Fantasy & Fiction"?

:lol:



cw10
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03 Oct 2011, 10:25 pm

Fnord wrote:
How about "Fantasy & Fiction"?

:lol:


Philosophy plays a key role in just about everything.

Technology of thinking, without it many breakthroughs would never have been.



Fnord
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03 Oct 2011, 10:38 pm

Philosophy (n): 1. A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing; 2. A means by which pseudo-intellectuals pleasure themselves with words; 3. A method of converting simple and obvious facts into complex and unbelievable paradoxes.



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03 Oct 2011, 10:47 pm

Fnord wrote:
I do hope that you are not serious.

The first one resembles a real ontological argument, really, it seems that adherents to this type of argument, [the logical possibility and the necessity of God is proof of God]. Yeah, right, who needs empiricism? :roll:

Quote:
Reason Proves Nothing

The Ontological Argument confuses a condition of judgment with a condition of reality. If one judges that a subject must necessarily have certain properties, it does not follow that the subject actually exists. Reason (by itself) cannot establish the existence of anything. In order to establish the existence of anything reason must be used in conjunction with experience. There are no analytic existential propositions; all are synthetic.

That looks good for a signature or to make it sticky.

Quote:
Just because one, two, or many persons believe that proposition x is valid, their belief does not in any way contribute to the validity of proposition x; and no matter how popular a belief may be, popularity does not contribute in any way to the validity of that belief, either.

You know that line has been used against evolution here in the PPR forum.



blunnet
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03 Oct 2011, 10:51 pm

Fnord wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Faith Proves Nothing

Just because one, two, or many persons believe that proposition x is valid, their belief does not in any way contribute to the validity of proposition x; and no matter how popular a belief may be, popularity does not contribute in any way to the validity of that belief, either.
Therefor discussing religion is a waste of time. ruven

Exactly. Nothing makes for a more stupid argument than one involving politics, religion, sexuality, or any combination thereof.

That would make the PPR forum absurd and pointless but we keep "wasting our time" participating in it.



ruveyn
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03 Oct 2011, 11:01 pm

blunnet wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Faith Proves Nothing

Just because one, two, or many persons believe that proposition x is valid, their belief does not in any way contribute to the validity of proposition x; and no matter how popular a belief may be, popularity does not contribute in any way to the validity of that belief, either.
Therefor discussing religion is a waste of time. ruven

Exactly. Nothing makes for a more stupid argument than one involving politics, religion, sexuality, or any combination thereof.

That would make the PPR forum absurd and pointless but we keep "wasting our time" participating in it.


Science, economics and politics is also discussed here. Probably discussion on religion are futile, because religion is not in any way based on fact. It is all a matter of belief. Everyone, of course, is entitled to his beliefs, but no one is entitled to his own facts.

ruveyn



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03 Oct 2011, 11:46 pm

blunnet wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Just because one, two, or many persons believe that proposition x is valid, their belief does not in any way contribute to the validity of proposition x; and no matter how popular a belief may be, popularity does not contribute in any way to the validity of that belief, either.
You know that line has been used against evolution here in the PPR forum.

Evolution has been validated as a dominant theory of science. It has even been demonstrated in the laboratory Here, Here, and Here.

The existence of God has yet to be demonstrated to the same degree of certainty.



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04 Oct 2011, 12:13 am

It bothers me when people are repulsed (intellectually or viscerally) by a particular conception of God, and based on this, claim that God must not exist. At the same time, I suppose it should bother me equally when a particular conception of God strikes a persons fancy (intellectually or viscerally) and based on this, they claim that God does exist.


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04 Oct 2011, 6:38 am

blunnet wrote:
#5
Without the ten commandments, people will do whatever they want and harm whoever they want
therefore, God exists.

This is actually scary when you think about it. If you would believe people that use this argument, if they one day find out their god does not exist (ie: their cat dies) They will start a roaring hedonistic rampage in which they will kill and rape a lot of people.


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