Atheists Reason Rally in Washington, D.C., this weekend

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snapcap
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26 Mar 2012, 4:11 pm

abacacus wrote:

snapcap wrote:

It doesn't matter if they think they don't have a position, because they do. They can believe that they don't, but that doesn't make it so. I could ask an atheist, theist, agnostic, or gnostic why they have their position, and guess what? That's their belief!

Why do you hold your position regarding God's existence? You don't even have to answer me, all you have to do is think about it, and when you analyzed it enough, you'll figure out why you have your position AKA your belief.

I should be a magician that performs for atheist birthday parties.

My position of god is the same as my position on unicorns fairies and fire breathing dragons:

I can have no position on that which does not exist.

You believe they don't exist.

ruveyn
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26 Mar 2012, 4:13 pm

snapcap wrote:

You believe they don't exist.

Which is perfectly reasonable and sane given they there is no credible evidence that they do exist. Absence of evidence is no proof of absence but it is grounds for not believing in presence.

ruveyn

snapcap
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26 Mar 2012, 4:19 pm

ruveyn wrote:

snapcap wrote:

You believe they don't exist.

Which is perfectly reasonable and sane given they there is no credible evidence that they do exist. Absence of evidence is no proof of absence but it is grounds for not believing in presence.

ruveyn

I never said it wasn't, I'm saying it's still their belief, regardless.

abacacus
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26 Mar 2012, 4:29 pm

If I had belief in god, I would believe in god. I hold no belief in god. It's not a difficult concept...

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Oodain
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26 Mar 2012, 4:41 pm

snapcap wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

snapcap wrote:

You believe they don't exist.

Which is perfectly reasonable and sane given they there is no credible evidence that they do exist. Absence of evidence is no proof of absence but it is grounds for not believing in presence.

ruveyn

I never said it wasn't, I'm saying it's still their belief, regardless.

you are still not grasping the concept that belief differs wildly based on context,

to answer your previous question, yes i do believe(1) that but that isnt the same as belief(2/4)

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Lord_Gareth
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26 Mar 2012, 6:21 pm

Let me try this again, Snapcap, and hope that you get it:

A failure to believe in something indicates doubt. Doubt is an absence. Absence =/= presence. Doubting whether or not something exists (failing to believe it exists) is not a belief. It is a lack of belief.

Faith is the presence of certainty, the affirmation of belief. A lack of faith is not a belief. Do atheists HAVE beliefs? Certainly, usually because they have faith (presence of certainty) in certain agreed-upon metrics of existential examination, but any atheist who doesn't assert '[Thing] does not exist' but instead says, 'there is no reason to believe [Thing] exists' is only announcing their lack of belief, not indicating the presence of any particular worldview.

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26 Mar 2012, 10:18 pm

abacacus wrote:

snapcap wrote:

My position of god is the same as my position on unicorns fairies and fire breathing dragons:

I can have no position on that which does not exist.

God is a major issue in all of society. People are divided on his existence, and what that existence exactly is.People generally agree that unicorns and dragons don't exist.
God is also a valid topic in theory and philosophy. Dragons and Unicorns are really only valid as metephors and such.

abacacus
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26 Mar 2012, 10:26 pm

Good for society. If I based my opinions of what society thought I'd be a sad sorry person.

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snapcap
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26 Mar 2012, 11:07 pm

abacacus wrote:

If I had belief in god, I would believe in god. I hold no belief in god. It's not a difficult concept...

Your belief is that God doesn't exist. I don't think the object of your belief is about anything but God. Is it about nothing? No, it's about the concept of God. It could be nothing, if you could prove that God is nothing.

snapcap
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26 Mar 2012, 11:13 pm

Oodain wrote:

you are still not grasping the concept that belief differs wildly based on context,

to answer your previous question, yes i do believe(1) that but that isnt the same as belief(2/4)

It doesn't matter how loosely defined your belief is, or how strong you wish it was to feel more satisfying, it's still a belief.

abacacus
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26 Mar 2012, 11:23 pm

snapcap wrote:

abacacus wrote:

If I had belief in god, I would believe in god. I hold no belief in god. It's not a difficult concept...

Okay, explain to me this:

How can I believe in something that is, to me, a fictional character? How is it that I somehow believe in this bloody f*****g sky zombie psychopath of yours when he doesn't ruddy exist?

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snapcap
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26 Mar 2012, 11:29 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:

Sounds like you don't believe that God doesn't exist.

Quote:

A lack of faith is not a belief.

I don't doubt that atheists lack a faith behind the idea that God does exist, but the don't lack faith in the idea that God does not exist.

Quote:

Do atheists HAVE beliefs? Certainly, usually because they have faith (presence of certainty) in certain agreed-upon metrics of existential examination, but any atheist who doesn't assert '[Thing] does not exist' but instead says, 'there is no reason to believe [Thing] exists' is only announcing their lack of belief,

They can say that, but it doesn't make sense to say that you have a complete lack of belief either way in whatever subject you're talking about. If they have a lack of belief, why don't they have a lack of reasoning behind their lack of belief? There isn't a lack of belief.

Quote:

not indicating the presence of any particular worldview.

That's not possible. Even if you are secretive about your position, I'd bet everything I've got that you still hold the position one way or another, and you have reasons for coming to that position. Now you can say that babies are atheists for the same reason, and if you hold that atheism is the lack of belief in God, then they are. But you are not.

What other things are there in the world that you can say you've heard of but never had a position on?

snapcap
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26 Mar 2012, 11:32 pm

abacacus wrote:

snapcap wrote:

abacacus wrote:

If I had belief in god, I would believe in god. I hold no belief in god. It's not a difficult concept...

Okay, explain to me this:

How can I believe in something that is, to me, a fictional character? How is it that I somehow believe in this bloody f***ing sky zombie psychopath of yours when he doesn't ruddy exist?

Because you were blessed by the concept of God at a time while you were conscious. Believing that God doesn't exist isn't the same as believing God doesn't exist. You do hold a position regarding the existence of God. And that is your belief about God.

LKL
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26 Mar 2012, 11:51 pm

snapcap wrote:

abacacus wrote:

snapcap wrote:

abacacus wrote:

If I had belief in god, I would believe in god. I hold no belief in god. It's not a difficult concept...

Many of us, then, also hold positions on unicorns, Krishna, and a whole host of mythological creatures we've never heard of.

snapcap
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27 Mar 2012, 12:00 am

LKL wrote:

Many of us, then, also hold positions on unicorns, Krishna, and a whole host of mythological creatures we've never heard of.

You can only hold a position towards concepts you've been exposed to.

abacacus
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27 Mar 2012, 1:08 am

snapcap wrote:

abacacus wrote:

snapcap wrote:

abacacus wrote:

If I had belief in god, I would believe in god. I hold no belief in god. It's not a difficult concept...

Because you were blessed by the concept of God at a time while you were conscious. Believing that God doesn't exist isn't the same as believing God doesn't exist. You do hold a position regarding the existence of God. And that is your belief about God.

Check the bold, and please explain to me how believing that god doesn't exist is not the same as believing that god doesn't exist :roll:

I suppose I also hold a belief in every single god and mythical creature I've ever heard of...

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