03 Apr 2012, 9:31 pm
Joker wrote:
snapcap wrote:
Joker wrote:
What I mean is you can't keep saying that atheist have a need or dont need to have a opinon or belief in God most of them are aganostic they dont believe in god but dont rule out that their could be a god or diety but they reqiure evifence to support such claims you see we as religious have faith when your agnostic their is no reason to have faith because it is irrelivant and not important faith is believeing with out seeing sometihing aganostics dont do they have to have proof to believe in such things with no proof they will take the concept of god as a very little possibility of him being real.
They can be agnostic as well as atheist, and they can hold one higher than the other. What about if someone said they were religious growing up, became atheist as they got older, then became an agnostic, and then became religious again, until their death. Your saying that they went from a belief, to a non-belief, to another position of non-belief, back to belief. Don't you think it's a little silly to say that they really had a non-position regarding the existence of God in the years they didn't believe? They could have potentially flip-flopped their belief a dozen times. Isn't it absurd to say that at some point in their life, they didn't have a position. I don't see how it's possible after the fact they were exposed to the idea. No one can claim to have a complete lack of belief.
Belief can be had without knowledge.
Okay why would some one have certin beleifs with no knowledge of what they believe that makes no sense at all
What I mean is that there are people that believe notions that are absent of concrete evidence to analyse.
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03 Apr 2012, 9:34 pm
snapcap wrote:
Joker wrote:
snapcap wrote:
Joker wrote:
What I mean is you can't keep saying that atheist have a need or dont need to have a opinon or belief in God most of them are aganostic they dont believe in god but dont rule out that their could be a god or diety but they reqiure evifence to support such claims you see we as religious have faith when your agnostic their is no reason to have faith because it is irrelivant and not important faith is believeing with out seeing sometihing aganostics dont do they have to have proof to believe in such things with no proof they will take the concept of god as a very little possibility of him being real.
They can be agnostic as well as atheist, and they can hold one higher than the other. What about if someone said they were religious growing up, became atheist as they got older, then became an agnostic, and then became religious again, until their death. Your saying that they went from a belief, to a non-belief, to another position of non-belief, back to belief. Don't you think it's a little silly to say that they really had a non-position regarding the existence of God in the years they didn't believe? They could have potentially flip-flopped their belief a dozen times. Isn't it absurd to say that at some point in their life, they didn't have a position. I don't see how it's possible after the fact they were exposed to the idea. No one can claim to have a complete lack of belief.
Belief can be had without knowledge.
Okay why would some one have certin beleifs with no knowledge of what they believe that makes no sense at all
What I mean is that there are people that believe notions that are absent of concrete evidence to analyse.
I am trying my best to make sense of your logic
and those people have faith agnostics and athesits do not need faith people who are religious do
03 Apr 2012, 9:45 pm
You could find faith under belief in the thesaurus, but I don't think it should apply to atheists in their belief. I wouldn't say it does apply, unless you could show me otherwise. 
03 Apr 2012, 9:54 pm
03 Apr 2012, 9:57 pm
CrazyCatLord wrote:
What snapcap is trying to say is that the absence of belief in string theory requires one to believe in loop quantum gravity theory.
It is impossible to suspend belief in both theories because there is no empirical evidence as of yet, or because you're not sufficiently educated in theoretical particle physics, or simply because you don't give a damn. You can't go through life without believing in either string theory or loop quantum gravity.
If you have never heard of these theories before, well... I just told you about them. Now you must have an opinion. There is no middle ground, no side line and no neutral position in this debate. The same happens when somebody says "have you heard of this god fellow?" You immediately turn into a devout theist or a strong atheist.
It is impossible to suspend belief in both theories because there is no empirical evidence as of yet, or because you're not sufficiently educated in theoretical particle physics, or simply because you don't give a damn. You can't go through life without believing in either string theory or loop quantum gravity.
If you have never heard of these theories before, well... I just told you about them. Now you must have an opinion. There is no middle ground, no side line and no neutral position in this debate. The same happens when somebody says "have you heard of this god fellow?" You immediately turn into a devout theist or a strong atheist.
nu-uh! not how it works brah
03 Apr 2012, 9:59 pm
androbot2084 wrote:
If I ever met God I would feel like an ape.
I already feel like an ape
Probably because I am one, according to the zoological taxonomy.
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03 Apr 2012, 10:04 pm
snapcap wrote:
You could find faith under belief in the thesaurus, but I don't think it should apply to atheists in their belief. I wouldn't say it does apply, unless you could show me otherwise.
I have faith in my religion having faith in a animal that has no scientific proof of being real is completely diffrent I am a secualr christian people can believe or not believe or have faith or no faith.
03 Apr 2012, 10:10 pm
CrazyCatLord wrote:
What snapcap is trying to say is that the absence of belief in string theory requires one to believe in loop quantum gravity theory.
Haha, you wish.
Quote:
It is impossible to suspend belief in both theories because there is no empirical evidence as of yet, or because you're not sufficiently educated in theoretical particle physics, or simply because you don't give a damn. You can't go through life without believing in either string theory or loop quantum gravity.
Why can't you believe both to be wrong? In that case, you still believe them to be wrong.
Quote:
If you have never heard of these theories before, well... I just told you about them.
Well, it's also kind of important to say something about it, you know, some attributes.
Quote:
Now you must have an opinion.
It might not be formed that well.
Quote:
There is no middle ground, no side line and no neutral position in this debate. The same happens when somebody says "have you heard of this god fellow?" You immediately turn into a devout theist or a strong atheist.
You know what works well? Telling kids that they can have presents if they believe/don't belief in God. Whatever outcome you're looking for, it should work.
03 Apr 2012, 10:11 pm
03 Apr 2012, 10:15 pm
Joker wrote:
snapcap wrote:
You could find faith under belief in the thesaurus, but I don't think it should apply to atheists in their belief. I wouldn't say it does apply, unless you could show me otherwise.
I have faith in my religion having faith in a animal that has no scientific proof of being real is completely diffrent I am a secualr christian people can believe or not believe or have faith or no faith.
Can they have faith no more?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VPXlalP2YU[/youtube]
Joker
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03 Apr 2012, 10:17 pm
snapcap wrote:
Joker wrote:
snapcap wrote:
You could find faith under belief in the thesaurus, but I don't think it should apply to atheists in their belief. I wouldn't say it does apply, unless you could show me otherwise.
I have faith in my religion having faith in a animal that has no scientific proof of being real is completely diffrent I am a secualr christian people can believe or not believe or have faith or no faith.
Can they have faith no more?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VPXlalP2YU[/youtube]
If they had faith no more then they never had faith at all when people have faith it usally means they have faith in God or just Theism all together.
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03 Apr 2012, 11:44 pm
Joker
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03 Apr 2012, 11:48 pm
ValentineWiggin
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03 Apr 2012, 11:49 pm
Joker
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03 Apr 2012, 11:55 pm
ValentineWiggin wrote:
Joker wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
Not. Enough. Evidence.
Therefore. No. Beliefs. Either. Way.
It isn't difficult.
Therefore. No. Beliefs. Either. Way.
It isn't difficult.
I have been telling him that he keeps giving me a headache by making no sense.
Yeah, I've asked fifteen eleven dozen ways for reasoning, and it amounts to
"Nuh-uh, you GOTSTA buh-leib somethin' about it!"
He said something crazy as hell that I can't repaeat it was something Rick Santorum would say which is why I am not going to say it
04 Apr 2012, 12:53 am
snapcap wrote:
CrazyCatLord wrote:
If you have never heard of these theories before, well... I just told you about them.
Well, it's also kind of important to say something about it, you know, some attributes.
That goes even more for the word "god", imho. There are so many different definitions of this word that it's utterly impossible for me to take a position unless people describe their idea of a god, goddess, or polytheistic pantheon. And I will be more or less skeptic depending on what kind of god they describe and how probable or improbable it seems to me. Some examples:
• God is everything. The universe / multiverse and the natural laws that govern it are god (Pantheism)
I can hardly argue with that. I know that the universe exists, so one could say that I believe in this kind of god. I just don't call it god.
• God is the creator of the universe, but he does not interfere with it (Deism)
I'm agnostic about this claim. I don't think it's impossible that the universe had a creator. If "creator" means "a previous universe that collapsed into a singularity", I actually like the idea. If it instead means "a conscious superpowered entity", I'm a bit more skeptical. But there is no way for me or for anyone else to know that, so all I can say is "I don't know, and neither do you".
• A species of Asgardian gods created the world from the body of a dead giant, who emerged from a void which was lit by sparks and glowing matter (Ásatrú / Odinism)
This is a very specific, polytheistic mythological belief, but I think it makes a nice allegory for the big bang. The void Ginnungagap, lit by the hot matter of Muspellheim, comes very close to a description of a dense, hot singularity. The giant Ymir, whose flesh and bones formed the world Midgard, would be the rapidly expanding early universe. But of course I don't believe in Asgardian gods
I think in this case, we are both atheists (correct me if I'm wrong).
This is just one of many beliefs that humans have come up with over the centuries, and to me it makes slightly more sense than the creation stories of the popular monotheistic religions. I mean, we have never come across a species that was comprised of a single lonely specimen, so monotheism seems unlikely on this basis alone.
• God is the biblical deity Yahweh who created the solar system in seven days and later had a superpowered son called Jesus who came back from the dead (Christianity)
I've read the bible, and I found it to be contradictory, logically inconsistent, and overall very hard to believe. Even as an allegory, it just doesn't work for me. I think the probability that the non-historical bible stories with their magical elements (talking animals, flood myth, Jesus' miracles etc.) are true is so low that I might as well call them impossible. So in this case, my position is as close to positive disbelief as it gets in regard to a claim that can neither be proven nor disproven. In other words, I'm a strong atheist when it comes to Yahweh.
These are just four examples of different gods. I could list several hundred more, but I think I've made my point. Which is that it's impossible to say "I believe or don't believe in god" without knowing exactly which god we're talking about. And even then, my position might be an agnostic "I don't know".
