Calling all marxists

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Are you a marxist, socialist, or communist?

do you think capitalism is the greatest evil (more so the religion)?


talk about it here.

Liberals are welcome.

I'm personally a democratic socialist.

I guess you could call me a social democrat. In my opinion, democratic socialists are the scum of the earth! It's clearly the incorrect order! (In all seriousness, I am aware that the two are theoretially different.)

But I'm more green than anything else. If we do not live sustainably, all other issues will cease to be of concern.

I don't think that capitalism or religion are "evil". I think that most religions are simply incorrect, and I think that capitalism is a dangerous beast that needs to be kept under strict control.

All religions are incorrect


Also capitalism is evil. Exploitation and destruction of our home is a stupid way to go. We are running out of resources fast.

No one should starve and no one should go unemployed. I believe in a model based off of swedens democratic socialism.

Some religions don't seem to make claims that are precise enough to be called incorrect, which is why I said "most".




Capitalism doesn't have to involve exploitation and destruction. The essence of capitalism is that two people swap objects because each wants the other person's object more than their own. No whales need be killed in this transaction.



If we're being technical, surely Sweden should be described as social-democratic as opposed to democratic-socialist? Sweden does not claim to be in transition to a post-capitalist society.

When i say social democracy i mean a socialized system where capitalism is regulated to the extent that exploitation and consumerism doesn't go out of control. Everyone received health care, education, and a guaranteed job. If you work harder you can go further and live happier but jobs are paid based on difficulty not education (someone shoveling crap or building things (manual labor) ) will get paid more then someone who works as a computer tech or banker (someone who mostly sits all day at work) will get less but still enough to live comfortably. No one will be homeless and the socialized system will take care of the weak, poor, and the old. No one gets left behind. Capitalism can exist but corporations have to pay higher taxes in fairness and all products must pass strict safety, environmental, sustainable, and reliability tests before they are allowed to enter the business market. All dangerous foods will be cataloged and people still can choose weather they wish to eat, drink or smoke dangerous substances (marijuana is legal for personal use but driving under the influence is illegal, all drugs will be legalized but the system will offer funding to help people ditch their addictions. Governments are the only ones authorized to sell mind altering substances and we will also offer help to those who need it, this will cut down the drug war costs. posts secondary education will be cheaper and everyone will have the opportunity to go. If a loan must be taken it will have a low enough interest rate to easily be paid back in a short period of time. teachers will be subsidized and doctors will receive special funding for medical research. Science will be a forefront priority of my socialized dream society. All scientists will get guaranteed funding from the government to continue their research. Religion will be a right but not a political force, churches will pay taxes like everyone else and using religion to gain political approval will get you kicked from office immediately.

Labels aside, I agree with you completely on almost every point. But this bit stuck out:

Paid by who? Companies, presumably. If the state controls what companies can pay people for services, then in what sense does capitalism exist in your society? If I work for a company, then why / how is that company forced to pay me a certain amount?

Last edited by Declension on 26 Apr 2012, 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

You are thinking in terms of the modern international economy.

I'm thinking of a world wide revolution. Money doesn't have the same meaning. There is guaranteed to be enough money to go around and governments won't have budgets. A ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT will unite all the world and a lack of borders will make the world a country less place for all to work together. Sure there will be corruption but we can handle corruption by taking away services or any revolutionary rebels will be prosecuted much like terrorists are interrogated and punished for damages done. This isn't going to happen over night, this may not happen for hundreds of years. this is my dream of what a perfect, fair and just world should look and act like.

Social democrat here. Does that count as socialism where you live?
It seems to be considered the weak brother always laughed at by 'actual' socialism and conservative liberalism here.

No idea. I'm in canada. NDP call themselves social democrats.

I don't agree with democracy. It doesn't work and never will. It's a flawed system that appeals to the idiotic majority.

...I strongly suggest you learn how economics actually works before suggesting a new economic system.

I've lived in a communist country before and I live in a capitalist country now. I'm not officially anything though.

I don't believe capitalism is evil, nor do I believe communism is evil. I think we need to find a middle ground and I think it's going to look a little bit different to every country depending on their individual circumstances.

I don't mind socialist democrats though

I'm an ecosocialist. That is, I'm a Green and a Democratic Socialist. I would describe capitalism as evil, because evil is a term that I rarely use. I do believe in more than just social democracy in that I do want an to see a society where the means of production are collectively owned and democratically controlled. The social democrats that we had before the Thatcher-Reagan era I would have got along with quite well, but these days I'm rather disappointed with those parties. I don't dislike social democrats, I just think that they aren't radical enough.

In terms of my ultimate vision for society it is something along the lines of what Socialist Party USA proposes. However, I do believe that socialism must be worked towards gradually and as such would vote for a more moderate party. The one that I like best at the moment is the Green Party of England and Whales. Also, I am a pacifist, so I disagree with any revolutionary groups.

I am not a Marxist. I think that Marx made some good observations and that some of them are still relevant today, but that by and large his theories are outdated. In particular I disagree with his concept of communism; I really don't see how there could ever be a stateless society. Classless, maybe, but not stateless.

Marxism has been falsified empirically. All the so-called "evils" of Capitalism existed before Capitalism. They are -human- evils.

Marxism never produced a working society or a viable economy.

ruveyn

As far as I can tell capitalism has a shelf-life and its based on innovation. When innovation takes away enough 'human' jobs to where the labor market can't suffice as a welfare program anymore, we'll essentially be stuck with re-configuring our take on economics. The good news is we'll likely have such easy abundance (possibly even full fabrication of anything via nano-tech) at that point that socialism technically 'could' work as a rationing system, albeit I'm pretty sure we'd do little things to keep people contributing to society and build in disincentives for essentially being a slug. My biggest concern with the later - I'd much rather see that philanthropy stay private and perhaps become a new head of the private sector (perhaps piggybacked off of corporations as side-branches) rather than see the government pick and choose what causes will be available for people to dedicate themselves to vs. what aren't as that could be quick and easy dictatorship.

Absolutely. No matter the system put in place human nature dictates the strong will find a way to elaborately twist it to their favor.
It's only "evil" to those who are getting the short end of it, I see it as the nature of life. Evolution, mating, and securing a foothold in the chaos of reality is all just a manifestation of the drive for survival.
Of course multiplied by our recent overwhelming population growth, kept unchecked it is potentially disastrous to our human sustaining eco system.

I'm a non-capitalist, but I never studied enough to affiliate myself with a particular branch.