Homophobes are gay

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It is true that most people that have hated gays turn out to be homosexual themselfs.

If you believe some of what's written in the bible is silly, why do you believe the rest?

Edit: I am too slow, this was already posted by crazycatlord.

Last edited by Orr on 01 May 2012, 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

So, are you saying that an inability to emotionally connect with people of the opposite sex makes you de-facto gay, or are you saying that some people have homosexual relationships who are not gay?

I will grant you that the vast majority of gay men are way into dudes. But i have known at least a few people - male and female - who I was pretty sure were just confused and discovered that the only people willing to have interpersonal relationships with them were emotionally manipulative people of their same gender - or at least the first person to have what they felt to be a meaningful relationship with happened to be with an abusive person of the same gender, and then they thought that was a great idea so they stuck with it.

As far as lesbians are concerned, far too large of a number of self-avowed lesbians have felt the need to explain to me in detail that the fact that they were abused by an older male in their formative years may have something to do with their aversion to penii but has nothing to do with the fact that they are gay.

It just doesn't add up.

And then add to that the number of women - including my favorite aunt - who decide that they must be lesbians late in their life, frequently after a life-changing event. In her case, that event was radical mastectomy. In other cases, it's often the death of their spouse.

And then there is the well documented phenomenon of lesbian bed death, and the vastly popular LUG behavior.

So i submit to you that a significant number of self-avowed lesbians arrived at their lifestyle by way of exclusion or decision.

That is simply where the evidence seems to lay.

I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying it happens. The fact that guys are pretty promiscuous and women are less promiscuous and less focused on sex may have something to do with it.

That and the preponderance of avowed lesbians who have a distrust of partners who claim to be bisexual - which doesn't seem to be a problem for gay dudes. At least not as much.

Some things can make since like believeing the things Jesus preached he never spoke evil against non believers or said to bow down whorship me he gives you the choice to follow him.

Now some laws can not work in this century back them they could my church only talks about the works of Jesus and his apostels.

Also learning about the lifes of the saints is good for a theolgist like myself.

Their are some good things in the bible that even christian atheists follow yes their is a such thing as a christian atheist who one does not believe in god at all but follows the morals that jesus taught.

I am not the only christian with these views of the bible a lot of us are like thsi we read the book even though their are some things we do not agree with.

Eh? How did you get any of that from what I posted?



Decide, or realise?

Most of your "evidence" seems to come from your own personal experience with people yo've met. I can't believe you've met THAT many gay people for this to have much weight though. I've met plenty of gay people and have the exact opposite impression. ie that it was something they always were, some just take longer to realise or accept it.

If a woman isn't "naturally" attracted to other women, but decided to "become lesbian" after failed relationships with men, is she actually lesbian then? I would say she's either pretending to be lesbian, or fooling herself into believing she is. But I think this is probably very rare.

You mean the obvious HUMAN morals, like thou shalt not kill? You don't need an old book full of nonsence and hate speech to know right from wrong. Or at least, most people don''t.

Do you have any evidence of this?

I suspected a genetic and environmental correlation, but have not done any research.

True I don't need a book to have those morals I already have those morals and I am religious also plenty of people who are Methodists like myself contributed a lot to science.

I view it this way I keep my faith perosnally to myself it is a family and cultural thing. How ever I am a strong supporter of repsect and honor when people are insutling or rude I will rebuke them with a debate.

Athiests and Theists will always be here atheists some time will raise their children to be atheists and theists will raise their children to be theists mjy qiuestion to you is can't we all just get along and debate in a manner that is respectful?

You're right, research suggests that homosexuality (like most neurological or neuroendocrinological traits) has both a genetic and an environmental / developmental component. But the environmental trigger occurs very early, probably prenatally. Which means that gays have been born gay, even if they "became gay" in the womb. The same goes for autism for all we know.

But there is also the special case of bisexual people who first identify as heterosexual and later decide to focus on their same-sex interests, often after some disappointing opposite-sex relationships. I remember the recent media outrage when Sex and the City actress Cynthia Nixon announced that she had chosen to become a lesbian. I assume that she had become aware of her bisexuality, experimented a little and decided that she liked women better than men. So in this sense, people can kind of become gay in their adult life. One can argue if Cynthia Nixon is really gay, but in my opinion, she has the right to define and label her own sexuality. In the end, it shouldn't really matter if it's a choice or not, since there is nothing wrong with same-sex relationships either way.

Last edited by CrazyCatLord on 01 May 2012, 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If that is true then ones envoriment growing up can play a role as well.

I'm not sure about that. Many neurodevelopmental traits are determined at a very early stage, often before birth. This seems to be the case for sexual orientation (and for autism too btw). There is no evidence that post-birth development has any influence on sexual orientation.

Yes I know but we are all born sexual beings but with out a sexual preferrence at birth.

I got that from what you said by the incontrovertible fact that there are people leading homosexual lifestyles who are demonstrably not actually gay. Which raises the question of where the line between "open minded" and "full on gay" really lies, and makes it clear that there is gray area.

I don't think same-sex attraction is a black and white issue. I think it's a mix of genetic predispositions, early neurological development, and both positive and negative environmental and developmental factors.

I think most straight girls are a little skeeved out by bisexual guys, while most straight men have no issue at all (on the surface) with bisexual girls. Female bisexuality is even fashionable.

I think there is a preponderance of evidence that women in general are more concerned with emotional fulfillment than with sexual gratification, and that guys aren't nearly that way.

There are a lot of psychosocial factors, and to believe that all people who claim to be gay or who lead a gay lifestyle have been totally gay forever is to embrace a false dichotomy.

Oh, and Utah is a lot gayer than you would think. In Mormon culture, gay people frequently marry hetero and procreate as best they can muster until they realize after three or four kids that they are living a lie, and even then they may stay in the closet. You know, for the sake of the children. If homosexuality has a genetic component, mormons have it in spades.

I didn't become a sexual being until much later.

Well-lets say that we are born genetically programed to become sexual at puberty or whenever- some years later than actual birth.
Like catepillars who born to eventually become butterflies.

But @joker - how do you KNOW sexual orientation isnt genetically set at birth?

The scientific community has no consensus against that theory.