Do spiritual things exist?

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Dude did you see that? The point of Edgewater's post just whipped RIGHT OVER YOUR HEAD! It ruffled your hair and everything! You saw that, right? Right?

I did see his post what's your point I hope you have one.

Also Thomas Jefferson was the president of the united states of american and was a atheist. You could always lie about your personal bleifes and still be a atheist and still win a election by keeping it a secret from the masses.

Both

Atheists are always complaing

Please do rope some friends into helping, this video's beyond a non-substitute.

Hallucinogens are basically disruptive agents. If they open a way to the spiritual world, they do so by breaking in. They mess up your nerve system and you find yourself thrown into a spiritual world in quite a bad shape. I don't say they're useless, they may be very useful to cure a narrow-minded materialist. Or help certain DJs make a really awesome music. But technically, it is not a high quality experience.

What we use to have this experience is not "spiritual". It is below our level - that is animalistic. It is perceived by an ancient and very powerful emotional equipment that our ancestors and animals evolved and it is qualitatively below intellect. Vast majority of humanity uses this as their permanent seat of consciousness and they use intellect only for work. Theosophists call it astral body and they consider it the greatest humanity's problem. It's our way of thinking, overpowering desires, illusions and fears.
We are naturally sensitive to astral experience, astral contact, even astral style of art and culture, we do not see astral experience as it really is. We only see as it subjectively affects us. All things astral are highly suspicious, if only because they try to influence and manipulate people emotionally. The fancier visions, the more suspicious they are.

Yes, pretty much, depends how you look at it. Btw, the emotional level is said to be densely inhabited and about as trustworthy source of information as Earthly tabloids.

I think an excellent source is the Ancient Wisdom brochure. It describes all the main themes well enough and the website further allows you to read on any of the topics more closely.
But for a more modern look on this (plasma/magnetic plasma physics) is Jay Alfred's website. It's not scientifically precise, but it gives a good overview.

This approach is possible too, there is the Monroe Institute, founded by Robert Allan Monroe. It is basically meant for inducing astral travel, but the NDE has a special element in it.
Esoteric traditions say that there is a higher part of us, the superconsciousness, higher self, "soul" or Ego, as Theosophists call it. The NDE has a definite sign of its activity, except it's often colored by people's religions. This is one of the main points in esotericism, it's the holy grail. And it's so far away from our physical reality, that I presume it will take many decades until it's physically measurable in its native environment. But having experienced it, it's quite easy to distinguish the same experience in literature. Writers tend to put it into the stories.
Anyway, with the Theosophic model of subtle worlds and bodies, independently backed up by Robert Allan Monroe and my experience, I'm not really in lack of working hypotheses, higher beings or bits of data. The only problem is getting that information across, together with evidence.

Btw, you might be interested in Lancet Study on NDEs and Dr. Ian Stevenson's research on reincarnation. They favor us

I can't let that pass without commenting. These folks aren't spiritual, they're basically a kind of highly territorial and xenophobic tribesmen. Christianity is their tribe and anything non-Christian insults their tribal honor, so they go forth and defend it or avenge it ruthlessly. Without giving heed to actual Jesus' words on private worship alone and loving your enemies. (Mark's evangelium, I think)
The worst of all is atheism. Other religions are enemies, but at least they have a God, sometimes almost the same God. But atheists break all the rules, so they deserve no rights. Dehumanizing the non-members and outcasts is a common tactic of propaganda.

I wonder what would they make of me, if I arrived there as a tourist. An European atheist/agnostic with occult leaning and sometimes a big mouth. Maybe I romanticize it, but I suspect local fundies tolerate foreigners better, even up to discussing with them. Foreigners are expected to be different. But to find an atheist in the midst of a family, church, school or a town, that's a betrayal of the tribe and must be punished.

If only these brave, admirable and well-meaning kids would study psychology and social dynamics before messing with the tribalistic mindset. They thought it was about religion, but it was about "honor" (that is, ridiculously over-inflated ego). Maybe Christian fundies don't have honor killings, but they have honor shunning, honor bullying and honor eviction.

I loved shrooms and acid, I want to do DMT but haven't found anyone crazy enough to go with me I have seen entities that you become aware of surrounding me with love and healing, All positive experiences for me

I agree with all of this. And I don't have to be a Christian to realize this isn't exactly Jesus-like behavior. In fact, it's the opposite.

Interesting what you say about psychology, because I was watching an interview of Marie-Louise von Franz just the other night (from the 80s), in which she mentioned how Christianity on the whole has still not incorporated Christ's teachings into its behavior, or into its heart.

Hateful behavior isn't religion, faith, belief. It may exploit those things as an excuse, but it's not a valid one.

I agree those young people are brave, and I feel for them. I don't agree that they should know better though. If no one is brave enough to stand up for nonbelief as much as for belief, such hateful behavior will just continue and be condoned. But they do need to exercise caution, and the problem I have (in this off-shoot discussion) is the idea that anyone should purposely give up their life in these stupid religious wars. LIFE IS PRECIOUS.

no true scotsman fallacy?

to add:

They're churls. Churls bully, churls attack anything that effects their local social ladder or ignores their power structure. What so many people around here don't seem to 'get' is that out in the boonies you have religious people acting churlish not because they're religious, they act churlish because they're churls. They follow whatever belief system is most popular - which out in the boonies is theism. They do the same kind of violence to whatever belief system is popular where they're at whether its theism, atheism, conservatism, liberalism, they remain pretty consistent in what it all means to their small clannish minds. In other words - this isn't a problem that having their hearts being touched by Dawkins, Harris, or Dennett would fix - rather they'd just become their misery and grief rather than being the grief of theists.

Amen to that.

Down with churls of all stripes.

There is no reason to believe that spiritual things exist, except in the sense that they do exist in the mind. Some believe that they also exist outside the mind. Likewise, the mind exists, but there is no reason to believe that it exists except as a function of a brain. There may be spiritual things outside of the mind, but I withhold belief until sufficient evidence is presented.