Sinn Fein wants referendum on Irish unification

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So you want to go back to the time of warring tribes?! And this is how long ago?! Before the Normans invaded Ireland in the middle of the 12th century, Vikings were making raids on the island and settled Dublin.

That is true but they never took the Irish culture language religion and history from them now did they

Neither did we. Irish culture, language and history is flourishing in Ireland. The Irish have known much of oppression and it is right that most of Ireland won its independence from Britain. However, there was a large minority, mainly in the north-east of the island, that did not want to be ruled from Dublin. The period of atrocities by the British (and the counter-atrocities made by rebels) is long, long ago now. Continuing to dwell on it does no-one in Ireland any good.

Yes that is true it is the east side of the Island. That wanted that which was stupid. And I know a lot about Irish History btw.

In fact, it was very wise for them given the discrimination and attacks on their co-religionists who stayed behind in the Irish Free State. Protestants numbered 10% at the time of independence; now they number 2%. Many fled the newly-independent IFS and went to the newly-created Northern Ireland or to Britain.

I know that but plenty of countries., Have dealt with discriminaton but are united. Like United States Of America. Should we split in two because of one group. Disriminating against another group?

I know about these people. What I mean is that voting SF won't help bring about a UI because it's a sectarian, winner-takes-all, exclusive form of nationalism which is alienating and frightening to Ulster Protestants. Unionists in Northern Ireland have a deep-seated hatred for Sinn Féin. Voting for Sinn Féin (or the DUP) in NI can be considered a tribalistic exercise.

Last edited by Tequila on 02 Jul 2012, 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You aren't taking into account that Unionists wanted to remain with Britain and that they mainly lived in the North-East of the island. The north-east was also the main industrial base in Ireland, similar to a city like Glasgow in Scotland if you like. My point was that Unionists campaigned on the slogan that "Home Rule is Rome Rule". And in fact, they more or less turned out to be right, because the IFS became a Gaelic state dominated by Roman Catholicism where Protestants were not welcome. Similar happened in Northern Ireland with Catholics.

Why hate Irish Nationalists though. A united Ireland is what they want. SF has plenty of support. But not enough to win for a united Irleand. I still have hope that it will happen. Some time in my life time. What's so wrong with a United Irleand?

Then it's a religious issue. In American proestants are the largest. I no that Proestants and Catholics. Don't have the same political views. But if they think those issues will be a problem now. Their not being realistic if it was a UI. Not saying their wouldn't be a proestant, and catholic, fight going on. Just sayin just because a religon dominates a country. That doesn't mean other religious people will suffer.

It wouldn't be to Northern Ireland's advantage, or the Republic's for that matter. Economically and politically it would be a disaster for both countries imo.

How do you figure that. UI is united the country. A house divied will fall.

I don't hate Irish Nationalists - don't be stupid.



I know that - but there are vastly different and varying kinds of Irish Nationalism, just as there are very varied strands of Unionism.



A lot of it's tribal support in NI (about "standing up to the Prods/Unionists"). As I say, a lot of their voters might want a UI but not all of them will. And, TBH, you probably wouldn't want to associate with a lot of SF members in hardline areas, put it that way - I sure wouldn't.



And that's exactly their problem - they're being sectarian and tribal about a UI.



It's just not appealing to anyone at the moment, or in the near future. It would be a complete and utter disaster. They would rather that NI remains in the UK. Even a lot of Sinn Féin voters wouldn't want a UI at the moment.

But when you say a UI, it depends on what kind of UI you're talking about. I think the kind of UI that SF and more extreme Nationalists advocate is completely unworkable and would never happen without massive bloodshed and civil war. If you're on about a much more moderate UI, where both Nationalist and Unionist traditions are represented in the new state in practice and in law, I'd imagine that Unionists would be more willing to listen. For example: a new flag and anthem would be needed for a start. The Queen would probably be head of state in some capacity. There would be substantial room for self-government. The 12 July would probably be a national holiday - would Irish Nationalists take kindly to that? And so on.

And the conflict between the Irish Nationalists and the British has been centred on ethnic, religious and political lines. They're all very tightly related to one another. As you can see what happened with many ex-Unionists in the Irish Free State.

I just can't give up hope. That a UI could happen. And the second UI you broght up is what I want. A bloody civil war is something I would like to avoid.

At the moment, it will massively impoverish both former jurisdictions, cause a massive, massive headache for the South and would essentially just be importing all of NI's sectarian and social problems and potential for conflict (would the Irish Army be able to cope with a huge resurgence in 'Loyalist' violence?) just to remove a line from a map.

That would mean that there would be a considerable degree of British and Unionist influence in the new all-Ireland state, recognition of separate (British) identity and so on, British passports being available for all Irish citizens (something which only people born in NI get currently). Something that many Irish Nationalists find impossible to stomach.