Pat Condell: "A word to rioting Muslims"

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It doesn't actually mean a great deal in practice, though. You have to see how their followers behave.

from a theological perspective, it means quite a lot.

If denominations within Christianity war between each other (war between England and Spain or modern Northern Ireland), what chance do we have of getting peace between the abrahamic faiths.

As you probably know, it's more to do with nationalism than religion as such. Most diehards in NI are the sort of wasters that wouldn't go anywhere near a church.

War between "England and Spain"? Can't remember that happening since the failed British Empire attempts to take Spanish colonies of the Rio de Plata in South America (now part of Uruguay and Argentina), a colonial conflict that ended over 200 years ago.

I was thinking of that unfortunate business involving a certain Horatio Nelson. That was fairly much a proxy war between The Vatican and the Church of England.

In essence you have to view it both in terms of religion and in terms of politics. Northern Ireland was more complex than Protestant and Catholic, it included nationalist ideology as well.

The causality of it is questionable, really. Yes, there were proxy wars between the Anglican church and the Catholic Church, but they used existing hatred founded in nationalistic sentiments to add fuel to the fire. In essence, "Are you protestant or Catholic" could be interpreted as "Are you a Unionist or an Irish Nationalist".

All in all, one should just abolish the goat herders of bronze/iron age Palestine as brutes and barbarians that have nothing of value to add to a modern society and who's influence has done more harm to humanity than any other influence in the history of mankind.

I never did find the good man's leg when I was there last.

Even the other Arab countries couldn't give a flying toss about them. Very instructive, that.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPjVCwec6oQ[/youtube]

Oh really? Care to elaborate on what you mean by that?



If anyone here is able to notice what way in which I'm being so hypocritical, please point it out. I promise I won't behead anybody, really.



Define "fundamentalist", please. Many definitions are pretty meaningless when applied to Islam instead of Christianity.



And what makes you such an incredibly qualified interpreter of the Quran, Tequila?



So, basically, you're saying that either I secretly hate my own religion, or I'm not human, eh? Not like I ever considered myself that human anyway, I guess, but that seems a bit extreme.

Source?

.....you know there are foreign fighters and they make up a significant portion of the rebels in Syria right?

The US is pretty much the only country that takes free speech to such an extreme as 'fighting words' being routinely allowed, remember mainland European countries have holocaust denial laws and 'hate speech' laws which make any restrictions in the US look like a b***h in comparison. South Korea and Taiwan have similar censorship laws. There is no other country which considers free speech a fundamental right to the extent the US has. Think about that, is it really the fault of the "muslims" from that analogy?

And yes, I like free speech.



I love how you mention the example of Turkey as a counter then go "oh they're full of islamists". You know Turkey has a strong Alevi movement right

Holocaust denial (both the Jewish and the Armenian kind) is illegal in the Europe Union. Analyzing, critiquing, making fun of, a religion or a religious figure is not. The French satirical weekly newspaper, Charlie Hebdo, proved this once again only just last week.

You know that a lot of people in Europe really resent these Holocaust denial and "hate speech" laws, yes? For a number of reasons but the most serious one in the case of "hate speech" is that it's often used to stifle reasonable (but controversial amongst some) political debate, as the authorities find it convenient to persecute legitimate, popular politicians and people telling uncomfortable truths (Wilders among one). As for Holocaust denial laws - I can possibly understand why these countries put these laws in place just after World War II, but the time for censoring nonsense like that is long gone and, IMO, gives extremists a way of feeling persecuted. And, in any case, some genuinely nasty political movements are growing in Europe - Jobbik, anyone? - and clamping down on free speech won't help anyone.

The main problem in Europe is a lack of free speech and democracy. Look at the European Union for one example.



I like me frees peach too.



I wasn't thinking of Turkey, which is probably the most liberal of the Muslim-majority countries (especially in the west - the east and south-east looks very poor and Islamist to me). Turkey is officially a secular state, but in practice this isn't quite true any more. There are still a lot of secularists and secularism still exists there, but it ain't as powerful as it was. Churches are commonly prevented from being built for spurious reasons but mosques thrive, church leaders are often spat on and occasionally attacked by Islamists, and so on and so forth.

No, I was actually thinking of countries like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria or Iran.

'Free speech' is not the same as saying anything you like and having no-one say or do anything in response. Indeed, that a video or cartoons is 'free speech' is not necessarily a given.

Only a government can stop 'free speech'. Like this:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/09/2 ... 9G20120921

As the China Mieville quote I posted way back had it, is your day really hampered by people wanting you to not draw Mohammed?

There are lots of things people don't want you to do, and will react - through peaceful or violent protest, or through legal action - if you do. Do you go around doing all those, in the name of 'free speech'?

There are people in the UK who would like to ban the burning of the Union flag. It's a fair bet there are people who, if I did so in front of them, would give me a good kicking (at least). Yet my day is not hampered by that.

I am proud to say that something like that would be unconstitutional in the U.S.A.

Consider the ad now being displayed in the New York City subway system. Legal and protect under the U.S. Constitution. Bless the U.S.A. and crap on Islam.

ruveyn

Yes, in some circumstances I would. If it's legal to publish cartoons ridiculing Jesus, then what gives Mohammad a free pass?