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rpcarnell
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30 Sep 2012, 3:15 pm

Well, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy aren't exactly places where people are secular and the economy is doing great.

And the US does not have kings and queens that don't work and live off American taxes.

And I am in Latin America, where there's no separation of church and state in many countries.


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30 Sep 2012, 3:17 pm

Oops.I misquoted that,it's: America,a melting pot where the scum rise to the top.I can't remember exactly who said it.



ruveyn
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30 Sep 2012, 3:20 pm

shrox wrote:
rastaking wrote:
I think America would be a much better place today if only educated immigrants, not the many uneducated Europeans, had immigrated to it. That way America wouldn't be stuck in the 1950s while European countries are living in 2012. The last time most Western and Northern European countries had a debate about who pays for health care (and many other social services) was during World War II. We still have a lot of people in the USA who seem to think their planet is flat.


You can look back just two generations to find the start of the decline.


You can trace it back as far as Woodrow Wilson.

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01 Oct 2012, 11:04 am

Let's not forget China who has apparently chosen a modified version of European governance. (They are not communist, they are Chinese.)



Thom_Fuleri
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01 Oct 2012, 12:05 pm

Back in WW2, most of Europe was bombed to hell and back. America was largely untouched. This is why America is still struggling against that 1950s mentality - in order to revolutionise, you need to tear down what's already there.

It also helps that European nations are all bundled together. Diplomacy is much more relevant when you live next to your enemies, and it fostered tolerance and even friendship. Between the poverty of Mexico and the friendliness of Canada, America is so starved of neighbours to fight with that its biggest conflict was with itself...



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01 Oct 2012, 2:13 pm

most countries are failing due to greed and social control and engineering by governments. its in the governments interests to keep most people as poorly educated as possible.


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rastaking
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01 Oct 2012, 3:57 pm

Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Greece are POOR European countries... they all are considered Southern Europe, and I thought I made it clear I was talking about NORTHERN Europe and WESTERN Europe that are rich.



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01 Oct 2012, 4:05 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJbKQClO540&playnext=1&list=PL66C30F080FE1F225&feature=results_main[/youtube] American tax dollars at work.


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Misslizard
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01 Oct 2012, 4:22 pm

:lmao: Literaly in the toilet.



rpcarnell
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02 Oct 2012, 1:05 am

Quote:
Spain, Portugal, Italy


These three countries have one thing that makes them poor: Catholicism. France pretty much neutralized with a strong separation of church and state, but these three countries never did it properly.


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02 Oct 2012, 7:28 pm

Hopper wrote:
What did for the US in that regard is the self-mythology and the history, and how a lot of this has been used against the interests of the majority. They're a young country.


Actually America is not a young country. France and Italy have not been nations for as long as America has. Arguably America has the most ancient unchanged form of government in the world, aside from maybe somewhere like Bhutan.



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02 Oct 2012, 7:31 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
Hopper wrote:
What did for the US in that regard is the self-mythology and the history, and how a lot of this has been used against the interests of the majority. They're a young country.


Actually America is not a young country. France and Italy have not been nations for as long as America has. Arguably America has the most ancient unchanged form of government in the world, aside from maybe somewhere like Bhutan.


The U.S. is the longest lived constitutional republic under a single constitution.

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03 Oct 2012, 12:17 pm

For all my criticism of the body politic in the United States, it is a very myopic commentator indeed who claims that the United States is, "in the toilet," or lagging in any meaningful way behind Europe nations (or the OECD, generally).

Economically, the United States continues to be sound. It has an enormous fiscal policy gap that must be closed, but when people stop running to the dollar for cover, Congress will be forced, finally, to give up its political cowardice and tax at a level necessary to meet the programs that it seeks to fund. There is also a huge income gap, which will lead, inevitably, to a paradigm shift away from fiscal conservativism towards a more equitable distribution of wealth.

Politically, the United States continues to present all of the hallmarks of a free and democratic society: free and fair elections, a free press, rule of law, protection for minorities and property rights. These may not be perfect, but recent events in Pennsylvania should serve to remind us that these foundational elements of democracy continue to exist.

Socially, the United States is presented with challenges, to be sure. Some stem from her fiscal policy mess, and her failure to adequately fund programs (like education and health care). Some stem from her failure to use the public sector to drive adaptation in the labour force. But life in the United States for the vast majority of residents continues to be safe, secure and comfortable.

There are countries that do certain things better than the United States, but when examined on a broad basis, the United States is every bit as well advanced as the countries in Western Europe. Only 12 countries score over 0.9 on the Human Development Index--and the United States is one of them.


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03 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
Actually America is not a young country. France and Italy have not been nations for as long as America has. Arguably America has the most ancient unchanged form of government in the world, aside from maybe somewhere like Bhutan.


If a woman gets married and changes her name, you don't start counting her age again from zero. Much as some women might like to. France and Italy have been around for thousands of years, and all that history still counts. It doesn't all get thrown out because their status changes.

America, meanwhile, has pretty much wiped out the indigenous population and has thus only about 250 years of history to itself. It is a young country.

ruveyn wrote:
The U.S. is the longest lived constitutional republic under a single constitution.


Which is part of the problem. People, technology and political climates change, sometimes drastically. The refusal to change the constitution to any great degree has made it an anchor to national development.



donnie_darko
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03 Oct 2012, 6:00 pm

rpcarnell wrote:
Well, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy aren't exactly places where people are secular and the economy is doing great.

And the US does not have kings and queens that don't work and live off American taxes.



Yeah but we have CEOs that do. :roll:



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03 Oct 2012, 6:26 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC_WLSiJ8EQ&feature=fvwrel[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP33K72nmDo&feature=related[/youtube]


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