Is Empathy Subjective?

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I was talking about empathy and the autism spectrum with one of my professors the other day. I had assumed that people on the spectrum usually have impaired or "different" empathy and sometimes no empathy and that they often rely on sympathy, morals, or ethics instead. This professor scoffed and said that he thought people with autism have DEEPER empathy than neurotypical people. I then asked him if he thought empathy could be a subjective experience, like how people see colors. He said yes, actually, he did.

What do you guys think? Is empathy subjective? Do you have it, and if so, how would you describe your own personal empathy?

BTW this is somewhat important to me because I think I need to add this to my research of autistic identity.

I know that mine tends to be deeper by far than most NT's - things that cause no reaction in them, can set me off for days.

I have to switch it off in order to be functional on a daily basis.
The difference is mainly that I react differently - if it's uuncontrollable or do not know how I should react if it is controllable.
If I can control the reaction, then I stick to practical solutions (which unfortunately gives people the impression that I don't care even though that's not true).
But that doesn't stop the occasional thing that is strong enough to break through causing chaos for a few days when it's uncontrollable.
Mine reaction is certainly tied to my ethics just as much as it is my empathy.

I have noticed that I am unlikely to react in an uncontrolled manner to small personal problems - the small things that people expect you to be able to on a daily basis which provides the bonding experience for most of them which is what most consider "empathy".

I am more likely to have an uncontrolled reaction to other things: an animal in pain, videos of war with soldiers killing civilans for sport, the death of someone I know, rape, etc, (by the definitation below I have cognitive empathy in this regard, perhaps too much - and too little in the small personal problems category)

Last edited by Kjas on 04 Oct 2012, 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

There are several types of empathy, and it is possible to have a high level of one type and a low level of another type.

So-called "emotional empathy" is where you react emotionally to seeing or hearing someone else's emotional reactions - e.g. seeing someone crying or in pain. People with ASD often have average, or even high levels of this type of empathy - we can easily suffer overload from observing someone else's emotional reactions.

"Cognitive empathy" is a similar concept to social and emotional intelligence: an ability to understand what others would be feeling. People with ASD often score low on this - after all, it is similar to "theory of mind" (understanding the emotional perspective of other people), another cognitive skill where Aspies traditionally score below average.

Aspies typically have average to above average "emotional empathy" and below average "cognitive empathy". So the answer to the question "Do Aspies have high or low empathy?" is: it depends on the type of empathy we are talking about.

Yes, definitely! Almost everyone is taught what is considered wrong according to their society. Yet, this does not mean that everyone can tell when someone is upset or happy. As a kid I could not tell what a person was feeling, all I knew was that they were acting odd. I have however, gotten better at reading people based upon a sort of mental encyclopedia of emotion, but I still have trouble with emotions such as love which are very unpredictable. Because I spent my teens growing up on a farm, I have had the ability to see how different aspergers make me. When an animal died or had to be euthanized the members of my family would, understandable, become visibly upset while I remained placid. As a result of my calm nature, it usually fell upon me to pull the trigger in these situations, including once putting down a beloved family dog that was in unimaginable pain and beyond the aid of a vet. I know this must make me seem rather cold but I did only what I consider moral and logical. I have all (if not more) conviction to what is legal and morally right, the only difference is that I can remain impartial.

Last edited by Sherlock03 on 05 Oct 2012, 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I cannot abide seeing wild animals in captivity (even fish in a fishbowl or dolphins or orcas at Seaworld) or animals that are in distress or suffering. Also cannot bear to see children being harmed or mistreated. When I was pregnant, the issue of circumcision came up. I took one look at a video of a baby boy being circumcised and I immediately decided that this would never ever ever be done to my son.

On the other hand, the "cognitive empathy" that one-A-N refers to above - nope, I don't think I have much of that.

It's an interesting question, even if I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'subjective' here.

I think I lack it in a personal capacity. Rather, I project - if I'm thirsty or hungry, I become sure my children are, etc. The one thing where I do feel empathy - and overwhelmingly so - is in humiliation. Many a time I've watched political figures I otherwise loathe interviewed, and it quickly becomes apparent they've been caught out, and I can't bear to watch.

I shut down quite quickly in the face of emotion (happy or sad). I can only assume it's an inability to deal with it, to process it 'normally', and if I didn't shutdown I'd be overwhelmed.

However, politically, I am easily upset by injustice. For example, I will get upset at the sight of a homeless person because they represent homelessness - a very bad thing - rather than for their particular situation of being homeless.

I used to have deep empathy until I realized most human beings are pretty unloving and judgmental, and sadly I don't really feel that strongly for people anymore. Not even my own family, like I used to.

Empathy is genetically "wired into" NTs.

ruveyn

Yes I think it is subjective. I think my own is lacking in real time, I can only really empathise after the situation. But during the situation I am usually stunned.

I am sceptical about the NT idea that they have lots of empathy. I think they are very good at appearing to have empathy, or sympathy, or interest in what someone happens to be doing/saying. I think they just know instinctively how they must appear to react to things.

But on the whole I would say levels of empathy is unique to an individual whether they are NT or Aspie.

I've never heard of this, but it sounds right. Where did you learn this? I feel like you've read something that I need to read.



^ This is what I was suspecting when I originally posted and the responses here go along with that. I think that you're right about something being off with NT empathy. It may be socially scripted. I wonder if NT people think they're feeling something when they're not. I'm NT, but it's hard to make a generalization based on your own experiences.

I'm going to need to study this seriously. I think this is something that is being misunderstood in autism academia. We look at the empathy reaction in people on the spectrum, but not in neurotypical people. Perhaps their empathy is not what it is assumed to be.

The idea of empathy seems to be a strong component to what is called "emotional intelligence". Not everyone has a high EQ, some NT's do not. I have met some people who are what you would say "very good with people", in that they seem to manage their relationships with people very intelligently. They also seem to instinctively know how someone is feeling.

That would be one end of a spectrum.

The other end would be a person who is lost when it comes to imagining how another might be feeling, or they do not instinctively know and so have to think about it first.

But I reckon all people, regardless if they are NT or Autistic, sit somewhere within that spectrum.

It is just a matter of time before there is a syndrome named for all people.

Maybe your study will result in a new syndrome.

I achieved whatever empathy I have by purely empirical means. I have very little innate feeling and sensitivity for other people. Any such sensitivity I have acquired by means analogous to an artist learning to paint by "painting by the numbers" or using tracing paper. Practice makes perfect. I have been doing this over over 70 years and now I can pass for human without hardly any effort or trouble.

So empathy in my case was an acquired skill so it must have an objective aspect.

Someone who comes by it inherently or "instinctivly" would be showing a subjective aspect.

ruveyn

Let's just say it takes all sorts to make an autistic spectrum _

Either way the cogs in the brain have to turn - I hope there aren't specialists in the field out their with unexamined unconscious assumptions that some kind of 'soul power' is responsible for the specific contents of empathy!

It's ironic, though, that in this case a mental process is considered 'subjective' when we lack subjective awareness of its workings, and 'objective' when we're subjectively aware of it by dint of consciously carrying it out

I feel like NTs have more of a type of social empathy than me. They get more pleasure or a warm fuzzy feeling by merely interacting with others, e.g. small talk, joking, etc... I can sort of get it but at times it seems kind of superficial to me, like it's just a ritualistic game and/or going through the motions. I do easily express empathy and/or sympathy when people bring up serious issues that are bothering them. What I have a problem with is when I feel like I need to pretend to be happy for or relate to people over certain things where to be honest I just can't and don't feel like I can fake enthusiasm at all. I guess this may be a kind of lack of empathy, I don't know. There are also a lot of days where the thoughts in my mind are a lot more absorbing and the interruption of having to constantly acknowledge people and interact with the outside world feels tedious and grates on my nerves.

As for when someone is uncomfortable, distressed, annoyed, bored, embarrassed, etc... I get the feeling I'm somewhat more sensitive than the average male NT but at the same time it makes me uncomfortable. My imagination can get carried away worrying what people might think in a situation that feels awkward, like people aren't letting on how they really feel. I don't feel like this is really a helpful type of "empathy" though as it's more like I'm internalizing the tension around me too much and it can set me off in a bad way.

I also seem to be more if a stickler than average when it comes to justice and fairness and instances of abuse, injustice, unfairness, etc... can really set me off and make me see red.

To be honest though, I don't know how much of my problems have to do with my PDD-NOS (autism spectrum) diagnosis and how much are my personality traits on top of it all. I seem to fall on the rather extreme end of the introversion spectrum as well. It's not that I'm extremely shy or quiet though, it's just that my internal world of thought is the most important thing to me much of the time and I have trouble knowing where to begin sharing what's on my mind with someone in any given moment.

http://www.guggenheim.org/new-york/interact/online-forum/the-greater-good/session-1

This was recently addressed by a panel of experts, a moderator on the spectrum, and comments from people on the Spectrum, in a Guggenheim Museum online event.

It is fully addressed at this link as well:

http://www.autismandempathy.com/

The scientist that has focused the most on the issue, Simon Baron Cohen, responds in the link to the article provided below, to questions from individuals on the spectrum; some people responding to his comments were not happy that Cohen is suggesting that people on the spectrum on average, have a Cognitive Empathy Deficit, based on empirical studies. He does agree that SOME people on the spectrum do experience significant amounts of affective empathy, however as mentioned through many of these links, the prevalence of Alexithymia which is associated with severe difficulties in cognitive and affective empathy, is reported in 85% of individuals on the spectrum. Alexithymia is understood to have psychological and potential biological underlying factors.

http://autismblogsdirectory.blogspot.com/2011/09/simon-baron-cohen-replies-to-rachel.html

The experience of affective or what has been described as subjective empathy by some in this thread is linked to androgen levels. Males with high levels of testosterone on average experience less affective empathy than those with lower levels of testosterone. Levels of testosterone naturally drop when a male bonds with a child and is responsible for nurturing the child.

Androgen levels have been measured higher in studies for males with more severe symptoms on the autism spectrum. Higher levels of exposure to prenatal testosterone, is associated with problems with language development and is associated with intellectual disability, for males, on average, per a study that was not specific to the spectrum done recently in Australia. Interestingly high levels of exposure to prenatal testosterone protect language development in females per the same study.

Androgynous physical features in males and females with Aspergers and attenuation of morphological sexual dimorphic traits in the brains of males and females with Aspergers, have also been reported in two recent studies.

There are a variety of potential androgen associated correlations that may result in a wide range of affective empathy and cognitive empathy responses in individuals diagnosed on the spectrum, some of which may be associated with Alexithymia. In addition, empathy is also not a static quality, as in some of the links above there is research showing an overall decrease among empathy in college students over the last 3 decades, with a steeper decrease in the last decade resulting in an overall decrease of 40% in the last 30 years. There is also a link that shows 10 ways how empathy can be increased or decreased by the activities one engages in, in their environment.

There are extremely rare cases of individuals that are born without the ability to experience much empathy at all, regardless of what they are exposed to in life, which is understood to have biological roots per brain scans done on some of these individuals. They also experience very little pro-social emotion.

The big uproar over the claim that was previously made by Samuel Baron Cohen that also focused on the difficulties some on the spectrum have with affective empathy, is that a stereotype was being established that people on the spectrum lack affective empathy, and were being grouped in with psychopathy, which in part is defined by the inability to feel affective empathy for others, either through biological or environmental factors. However, psychopathy is not just a lack of feeling affective empathy for others, it is much more complex that this one factor, but is most often stereotyped with that factor.

The same type of biological underlying factors may be prevalent in some individuals diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder per a lack of affective empathy, as occurs in some individuals with Aspergers syndrome that report they experience little to no affective empathy and have adapted through skills associated with cognitive empathy to offset that deficit for more effective social interaction.

Psychiatrists are not required to measure affective or cognitive empathy, through tests that are available in determining who does or who does not have an Autism Spectrum Disorder, so there is a potential of a wide range of affective and cognitive empathy experienced on the spectrum.

Overall, per the 85% prevalence of Alexithymia problems co-morbid on the spectrum it is safe to suggest that most people on the spectrum have difficulties associated with empathy, whether it is defined as difficulties with cognitive or affective empathy, above and beyond these other factors addressed above.

The underlying biological factors associated with the inability to feel affective empathy, is interesting, per the link below where a neuro-scientist studying these biological factor finds he has the same biological underlying features, but had a terrific childhood, and a loving family, which at least in his case appear to have made a significant impact.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127888976

The story demonstrates the power of nurture and neuroplasticity. This guy with an affable expression, could easily fit the warrior gene description he provides in the article per his overall physical presence as an NFL football player, combat hero, professional wrestler, or per the darker side a stand in for Tony Soprano per different expression and demeanor, but, add his personal experience of nurture and neuroplasticity and he ended up a neuroscientist.

It's interesting that his more distant relatives were understood to be cold blooded killers, but his mother, and his children do not share any of the same neurological characteristics that he has studied in other individuals that have experienced and taken different paths in life.

I don't think one can underestimate the power of the cultural environment and neuroplasticity in what makes the difference between a broader autism phenotype for some and a disorder for others, either. The social environment in modern cultures certainly isn't getting any easier to adapt to over the last several decades, regardless of one's inherent social communication abilities. The social environment that hasn't changed much still has an ASD rate of 1 in 271, per community wide scans of Amish children, as opposed to 1 in 38 community wide scans of South Korean Children, who live in a country on the cutting edge of technological advancements, with requirements to adapt to almost continuous complex changes in the social environment.