According to the Bible, the stars will fall from the sky whe

Post Reply New Topic

First, the best current estimate of the age of the universe is 13,750,000,000 (plus or minus 110,000,000 years) within the Lambda-CDM concordance model.

Second, James Ussher, the Archbishop of Armagh (Church of Ireland) determined that the Earth was created on Sunday, October 23, 4004 BCE, in the proleptic Julian calendar, near the autumnal equinox.

Third, it is important to note that Ussher's proposed date of 4004 BC differes from other Biblically-based estimates, such as those of Jose ben Halafta (3761 BCE), Bede (3952 BCE), Ussher's near-contemporary Scaliger (3949 BCE), and scientists Johannes Kepler (3992 BCE) and Sir Isaac Newton (4000 BCE). Ussher's specific choice of starting year may have been influenced by the then-widely-held belief that the Earth's potential duration was 6,000 years, corresponding to the six days of Creation, on the grounds that "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" (2PE 3:8). It's been 6016 years since Ussher's alleged Day of Creation.

Finally, the only "evidence" in play for those who believe in a Biblically-based date is the Bible itself -- a collection of largely apocryphal and contradictory stories invented by illiterate stone-age cavemen, recorded by semi-literate bronze age tribesmen, and related to us by iron-age theocrats.

The first Jews were people from Sumer (Abram came from Ur Kasdeem). They were bronze age folk who were NOT cave men. The people of Sumer and Babylon lived in multi-story apartment houses 4000 b.c.e. That is way before the Egyptians and the Greeks. Nor were these people illiterate. That had writing thousands of years b.c.e. They also had mathematics and the first place system of numbers (base 60) complete with a zero. Some cavemen they were.

ruveyn

Your facts are correct, sir, as far as they go. I meant no offense, and you are right to correct me.

The "cavemen" I refer to were the people who survived the most recent Ice Age back around 10,000 BCE. There is no evidence that they had any true written languages; thus, the "illiterate" label may be applied safely to them. However, it is not unlikely that their oral history included stories related to the post-thaw flooding of coastal regions that may have given rise to both the Biblical deluge story and the Atlantis myth.

The Bronze Age in the ancient Near East began with the rise of Sumer sometime around 3600BCE (maybe earlier), where the people practised intensive year-round agriculture, developed a writing system, invented the potter's wheel, created a centralized government, law codes, and empires, and introduced social stratification, slavery, and organized warfare. Societies in the region laid the foundations for astronomy and mathematics. but not everybody could read and write, thus the "semi-literate" label. I should have detailed that point.

The earliest account we have of anyone reading a compilation of the Book of the Law (Pentateuch) as we know it today places the event at about 400 BCE (during the iron age) with the Israelite's return to Jerusalem, and the rebuilding of the walls and temple. This is related in the Book of Nehemiah, beginning in the second chapter.

The actual reading is related in the 8th chapter...

as evidenced by the fact that Jewish scientists have won more Awards(eg. Nobel, Field's, etc....) than any other ethnicity, by far. No other group is close.

How does that negate free will? Making sure you get the right story and forcing you to do what he wants are two very different things. You can still choose not to believe or to simply not worship god, but at least you'd know he exists and what he actually expects of us if he told each and every one of us what that is directly instead of leaving it up to a bunch of power hungry douchebags for the last 2000 years.

The urge to find the date of the beginning of the world is a natural one, but Genesis was never constructed to explain science beyond the first sentence.

The bible is evidence of science to those who are content on sourcing science from a creation myth. I don't think its rational, and if the subtleties of the bible are not obvious enough to them that science is not to interpreted from the text, what can you do..., seriously, what can you do?

One day with the lord IS? or AS? a thousand years? When it says 40 years in the bible, it just means a long time. The same for Moses and Sarah's years on earth, I don't recall if it was 127 or not, but 120 means meant a long time, and 7 to symbolize the someone who God thought highly of. Numbers are very often symbolic with meanings of their own.

I have yet to go through rashi in full, but I've used it studying apologetic responses before. I love some of the ways he frames things, but his coloring of the text from whatever century he occupied makes me a tad uneasy, but I still love what I've seen of his works so far. I am currently using the JPS commentaries, and I hope to grow my collection to other scholars.

He promised Abraham the land, but Abraham still had to go and purchase it, his only physical claim to the land, and though God is the owner of all the earth, he could not simply displace people just to give Abraham the land... the people had to qualify as rotten enough for the land to vomit them out. Which is why he could not simply give anything to Abraham, other then an IOU that his descendants will later cash in on. Or at least that's my reading of it so far.

A few versus from chapter 12

So what?
It is a book with many metaphors. It makes absolutely no sense talking about history here.

A few Biblical events do seem to correspond to real-world events, but that does not validate the entire Bible.

Why do you think I'm a christian, it is hard to understand. I just made an observation, didn't say anything about its validity.
The Book of Revelation is mostly metaphorical.

Take this for example:
"The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches." (Revelation 1:20)

If the Universe were to collapse then from the Earths frame of reference the stars would appear to fall from the sky. Perhaps that's what the Bible was talking about; though it's doubtful that will ever happen anyway(long after the Earth has come to pass).

All the more reasons for not taking the Bible literally.

ruveyn

I didn't take it literally.

Last edited by AnotherKind on 11 Nov 2012, 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Indeed. You gave a good reason for not doing so.

ruveyn

Yeah, however it is odd that people here think I'm a christian when my signature says otherwise.
I don't consider the bible more important/meaningful than any other book.

Last edited by AnotherKind on 11 Nov 2012, 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

I consider the works of Tolkien better written than the Bible and yet in some parts (the Silmarillion for example) they tell a similar story.

ruveyn