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Fellow Christians: Your Views On Jeanne D'Arc?

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ruveyn
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25 Nov 2012, 8:58 pm

happymusic wrote:
I like the idea of believing that she really did see what she said she did. I also admire people who believe her. I can't fault them for hoping it's true.

Edit - I should clarify that the reason I think that is because devotion and faith (not just the act, but the true feeling) strikes me as beautiful, regardless of the religion.


Do you find madness and delusion virtuous?

ruveyn



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25 Nov 2012, 9:43 pm

ruveyn wrote:
happymusic wrote:
I like the idea of believing that she really did see what she said she did. I also admire people who believe her. I can't fault them for hoping it's true.

Edit - I should clarify that the reason I think that is because devotion and faith (not just the act, but the true feeling) strikes me as beautiful, regardless of the religion.


Do you find madness and delusion virtuous?

ruveyn

it is mad to reply as I revived the thread when it had been long dead but even if Jeanne heard the voice because of illness or delusion, her words convey a pure heart full of only love and courage even as she died. These words and actions make people love her. Very sorry, I must defend her. She is a long standing special interest, one of the historical people I love and admire. I have to get a word in. I am very very compelled to. Please no one else reply. Let nature take it's course. The thread died and I unthinkingly revived it. I fear a "flame war" so I think it should return to "dead thread grave"



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26 Nov 2012, 4:58 am

ruveyn wrote:
Jean D'arc was a nutcase.

ruveyn


Please site external empirically verifiable proof for "nutcase".



ruveyn
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26 Nov 2012, 11:12 am

Mikkel wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Jean D'arc was a nutcase.

ruveyn


Please site external empirically verifiable proof for "nutcase".


she heard voices (or so she claimed) but the source of those voice were unseen and unheard by others. In short, she was either a liar or delusional.

ruveyn



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26 Nov 2012, 11:14 am

ruveyn wrote:
Mikkel wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Jean D'arc was a nutcase.

ruveyn


Please site external empirically verifiable proof for "nutcase".


she heard voices (or so she claimed) but the source of those voice were unseen and unheard by others. In short, she was either a liar or delusional.

ruveyn


How do you know that?



ruveyn
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26 Nov 2012, 11:19 am

Mikkel wrote:

How do you know that?


anyone who hears voices from unseen sources is a liar or nuts. Res ipso loquitor. the thing speaks for itself.

The exception is having an unseen radio receiver. That is a different matter.

Joan of Arc lived before radio so the above does not apply.

Also "prophets of the Lord" Hearing God talk to you is delusional. If God exists or ever existed It is multiple thousands of light years away from us now.

Here. Free advice. Comprehend that the world is physical and made of matter and energy in space-time. There is nothing else.

ruveyn



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26 Nov 2012, 11:22 am

ruveyn wrote:
Mikkel wrote:

How do you know that?


anyone who hears voices from unseen sources is a liar or nuts. Res ipso loquitor. the thing speaks for itself.

The exception is having an unseen radio receiver. That is a different matter.

Joan of Arc lived before radio so the above does not apply.

Also "prophets of the Lord" Hearing God talk to you is delusional. If God exists or ever existed It is multiple thousands of light years away from us now.

Here. Free advice. Comprehend that the world is physical and made of matter and energy in space-time. There is nothing else.

ruveyn


Well, since you know what I am, when it comes to religion, then what am I?



ruveyn
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26 Nov 2012, 11:24 am

Mikkel wrote:

Well, since you know what I am, when it comes to religion, then what am I?


I neither know nor care.

ruveyn



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26 Nov 2012, 11:28 am

ruveyn wrote:
Mikkel wrote:

Well, since you know what I am, when it comes to religion, then what am I?


I neither know nor care.

ruveyn


Correct answer, but from the fact that we have no evidence of God, doesn't follow that reality is psychical. I.e. just because reality is not idealism, doesn't follow that it is materialism/physicalism/naturalism.



ruveyn
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26 Nov 2012, 11:33 am

Mikkel wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Mikkel wrote:

Well, since you know what I am, when it comes to religion, then what am I?


I neither know nor care.

ruveyn


Correct answer, but from the fact that we have no evidence of God, doesn't follow that reality is psychical. I.e. just because reality is not idealism, doesn't follow that it is materialism/physicalism/naturalism.


WRONG! There is not one credible speck of empirical evidence that the G-D of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob exists. Not a shred. Nada, bupkis, kadachis, zero, zilch. If the G-D of my fathers exists, He (She or It) has done a damned good job of hiding.

ruveyn



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26 Nov 2012, 11:34 am

ruveyn wrote:
Mikkel wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Mikkel wrote:

Well, since you know what I am, when it comes to religion, then what am I?


I neither know nor care.

ruveyn


Correct answer, but from the fact that we have no evidence of God, doesn't follow that reality is psychical. I.e. just because reality is not idealism, doesn't follow that it is materialism/physicalism/naturalism.


WRONG! There is not one credible speck of empirical evidence that the G-D of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob exists. Not a shred. Nada, bupkis, kadachis, zero, zilch. If the G-D of my fathers exists, He (She or It) has done a damned good job of hiding.

ruveyn


I wrote God as ontological idealism, nothing about anything else.



ruveyn
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26 Nov 2012, 11:36 am

Mikkel wrote:

I wrote God as ontological idealism, nothing about anything else.


That is Word Salad. That and $1.65 will get you a $1.65 cent cup of coffe.

ruveyn



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26 Nov 2012, 12:19 pm

Back to the subject, which is a fascinating one, and has interested me for years.

Do you know who else was fascinated by her?

Mark Twain! Mr. Atheism, himself! He wrote a whole book about her...from his point of view, of course....

Personally, I believe that there was something very special about her, something the arguments of her day could not stand against. There have always been con artists, mentally ill individuals, there have always been 'visions' caused by head injuries, accidental ingestion of natural hallucinogens, but this illiterate little teen-aged peasant:

Overcame the mightiest army in Europe, and

Restored the French monarchy, and found and knelt before the King, in the midst of a crowd, poorly-dressed as he was, and, of course, having never seen him before!

These visions and voices, when obeyed, caused things to happen that should not have.

And something about her convinced thousands of people that she received Divine messages.

Her accomplishments alone should speak for themselves.

Sylkat



Amo

02 Dec 2012, 2:04 am

Illa Erat; Sanctus.



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02 Dec 2012, 11:02 am

Sylkat wrote:
Back to the subject, which is a fascinating one, and has interested me for years.

Do you know who else was fascinated by her?

Mark Twain! Mr. Atheism, himself! He wrote a whole book about her...from his point of view, of course....

Personally, I believe that there was something very special about her, something the arguments of her day could not stand against. There have always been con artists, mentally ill individuals, there have always been 'visions' caused by head injuries, accidental ingestion of natural hallucinogens, but this illiterate little teen-aged peasant:

Overcame the mightiest army in Europe, and

Restored the French monarchy, and found and knelt before the King, in the midst of a crowd, poorly-dressed as he was, and, of course, having never seen him before!

These visions and voices, when obeyed, caused things to happen that should not have.

And something about her convinced thousands of people that she received Divine messages.

Her accomplishments alone should speak for themselves.

Sylkat
I should like to talk about her too do you want to talk about her with me! Mark Twain's book was thought to be real as in really written by Joan's page (or squire. who was it in the book?) but of course it was fiction.



ruveyn
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05 Dec 2012, 12:01 pm

Joan of Arc was bat-sh*t crazy. It was unkind of the Brits to burn her alive. They just should have discredited her. Perhaps by branding "I am a crazy woman" on her forehead.

ruveyn