The US paradox

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01001011
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23 Dec 2012, 4:58 am

adb wrote:

Fortunately for you, there are sheepdogs around to protect you from the wolves. Those of us that run toward the fight are the ones that make it so you can run away.

Are you a cop or you are just satisfying your role playing fetish?

The_Walrus
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23 Dec 2012, 9:25 am

adb wrote:

When you say "freedom from guns", it's nonsensical. A gun in and of itself doesn't have anything to do with freedom. It's an object. You have the freedom to own or not own a gun. You have the freedom to turn away from looking at a gun. You don't have the freedom to point a gun at someone in a threatening manner. All of these statements of freedom are related to you taking action, not the device of that action.

I'm not going to respond to the rest. You're projecting an opponent on me and fighting with it.

Freedom from people carrying or owning guns, then.

I, and everyone I have heard express an opinion on this, hates seeing armed police. If there were people on every street who considered themselves "armed policemen", and nurses and teachers were being armed "for protection", then there is a constant fear of someone deciding that you are dangerous and shooting you. It is bad enough seeing someone with a gun outside the Houses of Parliament on occasion, but if everybody has one... that isn't freedom.

If you have no answers to my points, then of course you are free to not respond.

vermontsavant
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23 Dec 2012, 9:44 am

The_Walrus wrote:

adb wrote:

gun ownership is more common in the U.S so people are used to it and arent as bothered by seeing a gun.

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ruveyn
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23 Dec 2012, 10:57 am

Vexcalibur wrote:

Hey USAmericans. Try to explain this , would you.

I remember that some years ago, one guy tried to transport liquid explosives in his shoes. And the keyword is tried. Ever since everybody has to take their shoes off before entering a plane in the US.

That's not to mention the nude machine or how you cannot have any liquid with you. Yeah liquid.

On the other hand, how many successful shootings do there have to be before guns become a bit harder to get?

That depends on how many successful shooting prevent a crime from happening.

Our newspapers and other media very rarely give us news where the use of a gun -saved- innocent lives or -prevented- injury and death to innocent folk.

ruveyn

adb
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23 Dec 2012, 11:40 am

01001011 wrote:

adb wrote:

Fortunately for you, there are sheepdogs around to protect you from the wolves. Those of us that run toward the fight are the ones that make it so you can run away.

Are you a cop or you are just satisfying your role playing fetish?

No, I was military. Now I'm in the business of training and simulation with military, law enforcement, and related.

aSKperger
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23 Dec 2012, 1:28 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Our newspapers and other media very rarely give us news where the use of a gun -saved- innocent lives or -prevented- injury and death to innocent folk.

...but they happen all the time. Or what are you trying to say?

ruveyn
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23 Dec 2012, 2:17 pm

How many of you would let your safety rely on corrupt, bribe taking, fat-a** , donut snarfing police who could not make it to your house in under ten minutes even if they tried?

shrox
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23 Dec 2012, 2:22 pm

adb wrote:

01001011 wrote:

adb wrote:

Fortunately for you, there are sheepdogs around to protect you from the wolves. Those of us that run toward the fight are the ones that make it so you can run away.

Are you a cop or you are just satisfying your role playing fetish?

No, I was military. Now I'm in the business of training and simulation with military, law enforcement, and related.

Can you teach them to remember they are citizens too? And to be polite and how to smile back at someone?

adb
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23 Dec 2012, 2:48 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

For you, "comfort" and "freedom" are synonymous? If you aren't comfortable with something, it should be banned to protect your freedom? If you aren't comfortable with black people around, they should be banned so you have "freedom from black people"?

shrox
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23 Dec 2012, 2:52 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

..I, and everyone I have heard express an opinion on this, hates seeing armed police...

Me too. A main reason I don't live a in town much larger that 25,000.

The_Walrus
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23 Dec 2012, 3:08 pm

adb wrote:

The_Walrus wrote:

Where did I say anything about comfort?

adb
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23 Dec 2012, 3:10 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

adb wrote:

The_Walrus wrote:

Where did I say anything about comfort?

You're uncomfortable with seeing people with weapons. You're afraid of them. Is this not what you were saying?

The_Walrus
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23 Dec 2012, 3:29 pm

Yes, I am afraid of dying, and by extension I am afraid of anything that has the capacity to kill me.

shrox
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23 Dec 2012, 3:32 pm

adb wrote:

The_Walrus wrote:

adb wrote:

The_Walrus wrote:

Where did I say anything about comfort?

You're uncomfortable with seeing people with weapons. You're afraid of them. Is this not what you were saying?

When I see people with weapons, I get a kind of aggressive feeling towards them. I feel they are a potential threat to me, and it triggers a bit of a fight response. The sight of an armed person also elitists a protective response in me in regards to those around me.

adb
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23 Dec 2012, 3:49 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

Yes, I am afraid of dying, and by extension I am afraid of anything that has the capacity to kill me.

I think this is more of an innoculation issue. You aren't accustomed to having people armed around you, so you fear it. But at the same time, you are familiar with having motor vehicles around, which kill far more people every year than guns do.

So, you want to ban things that make you uncomfortable. If I don't like how you dress, I don't feel compelled to ban your clothing. But you don't like that I carry a gun (that you can't even see), so you want to ban them. And the irony is that you endorse using guns to get your way. Your concept of "freedom" is that you get whatever you want and everyone else has to live by your rules. That's not real freedom.

The_Walrus
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23 Dec 2012, 3:57 pm

I am afraid of motor vehicles. I avoid walking on the edge of pavements, I walk or take the train whenever possible. I am scared of people who drive too fast or have noisy cars. Ideally I'd like some kind of system that limits a car to the speed limit on a given road, and devices fitted to all cars to make them quieter. I am not learning to drive because I am terrified I will kill someone.

There is a difference between "making you uncomfortable" and "making you fear for your life, with justification".

When have I endorsed using guns to get my way?

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