Is there anything we can agree on?

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Fun experiment I thought of. Let's find out what values/positions/concepts etc we actually agree on. I will list some things out. If you disagree with any of them, post here and I will cross out the things you disagree with.

If you want to add some ideas to the list, post here and I will add them, unless I or someone else disagree with them. Everything is on the table. I think it will be fun to see if there is anything at all that we can all agree on.

Ok, here is a short starter list:

Potential Common Ground
1) Racial equality. No one group of people is essentially superior or more deserving of rights than any other.
3) Women deserve equal treatment under the law.
5) It is potentially OK to have laws that enforce gender equality, although specific laws may not be acceptable.
18) Spock is cool *Objection noted
19) Either heaven is real, or it isn't.......

The Already Stricken
----------> STRIKE 2) There is no perfect form of government. It will always be corrupt, and tyranny will always be a danger.
----------> STRIKE 4) We need laws to enforce racial equality.
----------> STRIKE 6) Society has a moral responsibly to provide for all members of society.
----------> STRIKE 7) Society has the absolute right to make demands of people who are dependent on handouts. In other words, if you want free housing, food, etc, you will live where we tell you to live, eat what we tell you to eat, and behave as you are told to behave. If you don't like the free soup then we can wash our hands of you and let you starve.
----------> STRIKE Immigrants should have a very clear path to citizenship.
----------> STRIKE 9) Abortion should be legal
----------> STRIKE 10) Polygamy should be legal
----------> STRIKE 11) Prostitution should be legal.
----------> STRIKE 12) Drugs should be legal
----------> STRIKE 13) Guns should be limited and closely regulated
----------> STRIKE 14) Businesses should never be trusted at their word.
----------> STRIKE 15) The people have the right to regulate industry however they see fit.
----------> STRIKE 16) We should be happy to pay taxes
----------> STRIKE 17) We should bring criminal charges against corrupt politicians


That's probably enough random statements to start. I wonder if any of them can survive even a few posts.


Edit: Lots of strikes, and several others are in question.[b]

1) Racial equality. No one group of people is essentially superior or more deserving of rights than any other.
Agree.

2) There is no perfect form of government. It will always be corrupt, and tyranny will always be a danger.
Agree, as per the Arrow Impossibility Theorem,

3) Women deserve equal treatment under the law.
Agree.

4) We need laws to enforce racial equality.
Depending on the law. I am against Affirmative Action.

5) We need laws to enforce gender equality.
See my response to (4).

6) Society has a moral responsibly to provide for all members of society.
I find that "provide" is insufficiently defined.

7) Society has the absolute right to make demands of people who are dependent on handouts. In other words, if you want free housing, food, etc, you will live where we tell you to live, eat what we tell you to eat, and behave as you are told to behave. If you don't like the free soup then we can wash our hands of you and let you starve.
Something is fishy about this one. Did you include it simply to have it shot down?

8) Immigrants should have a very clear path to citizenship.
Partially agree. Note that "very clear" does not mean "easy".

9) Abortion should be legal.
Yes, but qualified - mostly based on the stage of pregnancy.

10) Polygamy should be legal.
Only if it works both ways.

11) Prostitution should be legal.
Agree.

12) Drugs should be legal
Depends on the drug.

13) Guns should be limited and closely regulated.
Depends on the limitation and regulation.

14) Businesses should never be trusted at their word.
Agree.

15) The people have the right to regulate industry however they see fit.
Disagree.

16) We should be happy to pay taxes
Disagree.

17) We should bring criminal charges against corrupt politicians
Agree. But who defines what is corrupt and what is not?

"4) We need laws to enforce racial equality."
Disagree. Market forces are sufficient in the absence of laws that actively enforce racial inequality. If the law doesn't require a separate lunch counter for blacks, the guy who runs one lunch counter will make more money and the guy who enforces segregation will be driven out of business.

"5) We need laws to enforce gender equality."
I'm not sure whether I agree, but I don't actively disagree.

"6) Society has a moral responsibly to provide for all members of society."
Disagree. There is no such thing as "society", just collections of individuals. Individuals do not have arbitrary responsibility to provide for any other individuals. Truly needy individuals should be provided for through voluntary charity, which is not really a "responsibility".

"7) Society has the absolute right to make demands of people who are dependent on handouts. In other words, if you want free housing, food, etc, you will live where we tell you to live, eat what we tell you to eat, and behave as you are told to behave. If you don't like the free soup then we can wash our hands of you and let you starve."
Agreed, but unnecessary without (6).

"8) Immigrants should have a very clear path to citizenship."
Disagree with the rule as stated. There may be a place for temporary immigrants who have no intention or desire for citizenship.

"11) Prostitution should be legal."
I'm not sure whether I agree, but I don't actively disagree.

"12) Drugs should be legal"
I don't actively disagree provided the rest of society is perfect. I do disagree in societies where some people are tax supported, since reducing one's productivity with drugs then increases the burden on others.

"13) Guns should be limited and closely regulated"
Disagree. Privately held, technologically current weapons are ultimately the only way to hold tyranny in check.

"14) Businesses should never be trusted at their word."
Disagree. I know a lot of trustworthy businesses.

"----------> STRIKE 15) The people have the right to regulate industry however they see fit."
I also disagree with this.

"----------> STRIKE 16) We should be happy to pay taxes"
I also disagree with this in the general case.

"17) We should bring criminal charges against corrupt politicians"
I'm not sure that criminal rather than civil charges are always the way to go, so I disagree with it as stated.

psychohist, I would love to see you add to the list. You seem to come from a libertarian perspective which usually disagree with on everything. I would love to see if there is anything else we agree on.

I don't agree with point number 2. I think that a government could be formed that wasn't susceptible to corruption and tyranny. If we create something like an aspie committee to run things or an AI system to manage our societies.

It is a very negative thing to agree with and I just think humanity has to progress past this selfish, power tripping era we are going through. I think we can rise above it.

the problem is that right wingers inherently believe that social inequality is either inevitable or in extreme cases, desirable.

Thats why there will never be a broad consensus between progressives and reactionaries.

You can strike "polygamy should be legal." I don't think the government should support or endorse any sort of purely personal relationship via conferring marriage rights, except as necessary in the case of the partners bearing children and/or bringing foriegn partners into the country. There should be no marriage.