Verdict in Steubenville Case

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Cei
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22 Mar 2013, 11:15 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Cei wrote:

[
Because no matter what they do, they won't be able to change that. They're teenagers, teenagers do stupid irresponsible cruel things and grow up to be decent people all the time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's no big deal, or that they're decent people now. I'm saying they could change. Is that more likely to happen if they're locked in a box with a bunch of other stupid cruel teenagers, then forced to spend the rest of their lives as second-class citizens? I doubt it. Are they guaranteed to still deserve that when they're 50 years old? Maybe, maybe not.

Not every teen is going to do stupid or cruel things - and in fact, most don't. And sure, very possibly teen offenders might grow up to be good, responsible citizens - but adult offenders might also eventually become good people, as well. What they might be in later life doesn't mean they shouldn't be punished for any crimes they've committed.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Of course it's a generalization. But teenagers do stupid and cruel things more often. Some of them criminal, some not.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished. I'm saying nobody should be irrevocably branded like that. Or are you arguing that they should continue to be punished for the rest of their lives, no matter what they do?

BlueMax
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22 Mar 2013, 11:39 pm

auntblabby wrote:

if they get caught raping or sexually victimizing/bullying a weaker inmate, then they should be chemically castrated until their sentence ends- or be put into solitary for the length of their sentence.

I'm beginning to think that'd be a more effective prison system all-round. Many prisons are recruiting centers for terrorists and run under their own sharia law, etc. Every dang person in prison should be removed from banding together to form criminal associations, cliques, and/or hurting each other...
...plus, to most people (NT's particularly) removing their precious socialization is the worst of all tortures! The lesser just miss socializing, the sociopaths have no one to manipulate! Awful!

Kraichgauer
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23 Mar 2013, 2:08 am

Cei wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Cei wrote:

I was actually talking about rapists, not some dumb kid who swipes a car to go on a joyride.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Cei
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23 Mar 2013, 2:52 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Cei wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Cei wrote:

I was actually talking about rapists, not some dumb kid who swipes a car to go on a joyride.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Is it that big a difference? Are rapists so inherently evil that they cannot also be dumb kids?

Kraichgauer
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23 Mar 2013, 3:15 am

Cei wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Cei wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Cei wrote:

I was actually talking about rapists, not some dumb kid who swipes a car to go on a joyride.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Is it that big a difference? Are rapists so inherently evil that they cannot also be dumb kids?

While it's not impossible for sex offenders to change, the self described "Rape Gang" who molested that girl in Steubenville were hardly guilty of a mere youthful indiscretion. Such boys raised to have a sense of entitlement along with a vicious streak tend to grow up to be bad adults. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the coach who had tried defaming the victim, and who had warned his team to destroy the video evidence, had been a spoiled jock who thought his place on the football team placed him beyond the reach of the law.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

alpineglow
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24 Mar 2013, 10:01 am

:arrow: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/c ... -mays.html

Magneto
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25 Mar 2013, 11:16 am

I think the most disturbing part in this whole sordid mess is the fact that they managed to do it. Without anyone calling the cops on them. Or dealing with them directly (I don't care how strong you are, a determined Zerg rush will take you down - requires enough people to do good though).

I don't know why they've only been sentenced to a maximum of 5 years though. I would have thought an indefinite sentence would be more reasonable, given that they're evidently a danger to society?

mercifullyfree
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25 Mar 2013, 11:24 am

Magneto wrote:

Yes, that's what I find scary. The entire herd that was surrounding it all. These boys are not uniquely evil. They are supported by and enabled by a herd.

BlueMax
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25 Mar 2013, 11:59 am

mercifullyfree wrote:

Magneto wrote:

Yes, that's what I find scary. The entire herd that was surrounding it all. These boys are not uniquely evil. They are supported by and enabled by a herd.

Well, hey... anything the cool football players do must be approved by the other kids or they risk being targeted themselves!

$%^#$%^ sheeple herd mentality.

Sylkat
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25 Mar 2013, 2:53 pm

Dear BlueMax,

You are absolutely right.

The fact is that they took her from party to party, even molesting her in the car on the way,showing her off to the crowds, abusing her repeatedly in front of everyone, AND first statements were that she was shared with anyone who wanted to.

They knew that no one would try to stop them.

They knew no one would try to help her.

They knew no one would make even one phone call...to her friends, to parents, to the police.

They fully expected to get away with it.

And Cody Saltsman, who apparently set the whole thing up, has never been called to account, AND his parents tried to sue the blogger who exposed this abuse and his instigation to the whole country.

Sylkat

Kraichgauer
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25 Mar 2013, 3:41 pm

Sylkat wrote:

This Cody kid should be the next to be dragged before the court.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

marshall
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26 Mar 2013, 11:01 am

mercifullyfree wrote:

Magneto wrote:

Yes, that's what I find scary. The entire herd that was surrounding it all. These boys are not uniquely evil. They are supported by and enabled by a herd.

No, I think American society as a whole is entirely f****d up. We are a nation of shallow arrogant selfish brutes. We celebrate sociopathic traits as "strength".

xenon13
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29 Mar 2013, 4:37 pm

marshall wrote:

mercifullyfree wrote:

Magneto wrote:

Yes, that's what I find scary. The entire herd that was surrounding it all. These boys are not uniquely evil. They are supported by and enabled by a herd.

No, I think American society as a whole is entirely f**** up. We are a nation of shallow arrogant selfish brutes. We celebrate sociopathic traits as "strength".

Entirely correct. The message today is "Psychopathy is the way to be".

BlueMax
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29 Mar 2013, 7:45 pm

xenon13 wrote:

marshall wrote:

No, I think American society as a whole is entirely f**** up. We are a nation of shallow arrogant selfish brutes. We celebrate sociopathic traits as "strength".

Entirely correct. The message today is "Psychopathy is the way to be".

Capitalism and corporations are modeled after a psychopathic personality.

Dilbert's Scott Adams noted this long ago and mused, "In the future, the best qualification an employee can have is a total lack of ethics."

thomas81
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29 Mar 2013, 7:50 pm

BlueMax wrote:

xenon13 wrote:

marshall wrote:

No, I think American society as a whole is entirely f**** up. We are a nation of shallow arrogant selfish brutes. We celebrate sociopathic traits as "strength".

Entirely correct. The message today is "Psychopathy is the way to be".

Scott Adams is a genius.

'Promotion is nature's way of removing idiots from the productive flow' pmsl

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