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Is society becoming more unisex?
Yes. 50%  50%  [ 10 ]
No. 50%  50%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 20

Schneekugel
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25 Mar 2013, 10:02 am

fueledbycoffee wrote:
The old gender roles are still accepted. Androgyny is just becoming more accepted. The day that we feel like people have to be androgynous, when society is really unisex, that's when I quit.


I dont think it will ever be like that. For me its like shoe sizes. So most women have shoe sizes between 37-40, while most men have shoe sizes around 41-45. Thats ok and there is nothing bad about it.

But about 25% of people have shoe sizes, that are below or above the average shoesize of their sex. So there are some women with shoe sizes of 43 and there are some men with shoe sizes of 38.

So for me its less about that everyone, male or female, shall now where the androgynous shoe size of 40-41, "so that we are all equal", buts its simply about accepting that there are some males that dont fit in their sexes averages shoesize, and there are some women that dont fit in their sexes averages shoesize too. And thats pretty normal, and these people simply should be allowed to wear the shoe size they actually have, instead of getting forced to wear their average sexes shoe size, "because the other 75% male/females also do so and this is normal". ^^

So for example I feel myself deeply disturbed when people talk about "male or female brains". According to my tests, my brain has balls as big as a basketball and a 8 meter long beard if it was a male brain. -.- We simply have a brain, and most womens brain tend to evolve in a specific directions, and most mens brain tend to evolve in specific pattern, and I have no problem with that. But that doesnt make a brain male or female. Still according to that I have a brain, that fits a pattern which is rather rare for women and is found more often at men. And there is also nothing unusual about that, because there always had been some men with a brain pattern that is untypical for their sex, and women that have rather untypical brain patterns too. Because of that you are not less or more female or male, as you are not less or more female or male because of your shoe size. You simply may have some deeds or characterics, that doesnt fit to the average women or men.

If you feel yourself as "men" none of these persons would be helped, if you forced yourself to become androgynous. So it would not change anything for me, if you denied the deeds you know have, to act like an androgynous person you dont are. So from my opinion you dont have to quit. Simply dont expect me to tell you cooking recipes, and dont cry when I splatter your ass in Battlefield. ^^ Thats enough. :)

Edit: Shortened it a bit. :)



Last edited by Schneekugel on 25 Mar 2013, 10:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

fueledbycoffee
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25 Mar 2013, 10:10 am

I agree. My argument is against the people who argue that those who follow the traditional definition of masculine and feminine are brutes or anti-feminist. People should be free to be true to themselves. And I have frequently found myself arguing with people based on that idea that all women have to push against the glass ceiling by virtue of simply being women. It's like this article I read in Newsweek, where someone was criticizing Sally Ride for not being more publicly gay, so she was somehow shirking her duty.



mercifullyfree
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25 Mar 2013, 10:12 am

Schneekugel wrote:
So for me its less about that everyone, male or female, shall now where the androgynous shoe size of 40-41, "so that we are all equal", buts its simply about accepting that there are some males that dont fit in their sexes averages shoesize, and there are some women that dont fit in their sexes averages shoesize too. And thats pretty normal, and these people simply should be allowed to wear the shoe size they actually have, instead of getting forced to wear their average sexes shoe size, "because the other 75% male/females also do so and this is normal". ^^


Yes, this exactly.

I will admit that I can be sensitive about this topic because I don't want children and don't fit well with the average "female shoe," both metaphorical and literal. They make them too narrow. =\



ArrantPariah
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25 Mar 2013, 10:18 am

mercifullyfree wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Those are all important factors, too. But, doubling the workforce (through increased female participation) also has the effect of depressing wages.


Allowing black people to work for a decent wage instead of keeping them enslaved might have depressed a few wages too, but it was still the right thing to do and didn't hit the working man nearly as hard as taking manufacturing jobs out of the country.


No. Slavery also depressed wages.

Moving manufacturing jobs out of the country did depress the wages of American factory workers. Probably not as much as the increased use of technology (robots, computers, etc.). But, on the plus side, if televisions were still produced in the USA, then they would be much less affordable.



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25 Mar 2013, 10:30 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
No. Slavery also depressed wages.


Poor black people were often hired as strikebreakers during the era of labor union organizing. This contributed to a lot of working class racism, scapegoating blacks for lowering wages much like you are scapegoating working women. Funny how nothing seems to make the slightest dent in executive wages.



IDontGetIt
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25 Mar 2013, 11:12 am

ruveyn wrote:
CaptainTrips222 wrote:
No, there are unisex bathrooms.


I have one in my house.

In public places in the United States they are extremely rare. I wish they had more. I would love to see a women peeing while she is standing up.

ruveyn


So would I. But that has nothing to do with equality. :oops:



ArrantPariah
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25 Mar 2013, 11:26 am

IDontGetIt wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
CaptainTrips222 wrote:
No, there are unisex bathrooms.


I have one in my house.

In public places in the United States they are extremely rare. I wish they had more. I would love to see a women peeing while she is standing up.

ruveyn


So would I. But that has nothing to do with equality. :oops:


Yes it does.



ArrantPariah
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25 Mar 2013, 11:28 am

mercifullyfree wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
No. Slavery also depressed wages.


Poor black people were often hired as strikebreakers during the era of labor union organizing. This contributed to a lot of working class racism, scapegoating blacks for lowering wages much like you are scapegoating working women. Funny how nothing seems to make the slightest dent in executive wages.


That also depressed wages.



fueledbycoffee
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25 Mar 2013, 11:28 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
IDontGetIt wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
CaptainTrips222 wrote:
No, there are unisex bathrooms.


I have one in my house.

In public places in the United States they are extremely rare. I wish they had more. I would love to see a women peeing while she is standing up.

ruveyn


So would I. But that has nothing to do with equality. :oops:


Yes it does.


Please explain. Sounds more to do with novelty/randiness.



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25 Mar 2013, 11:30 am

Sounds like golden showers are a bit of an interest here.



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25 Mar 2013, 1:47 pm

Schneekugel wrote:
mercifullyfree wrote:
Your original statement that I objected to:

Quote:
I don't think that feminism "freed" women from social expectations and roles: it only gave them a different set of social expectations and roles, and a new set of fashionable neologisms.


Unless feminists are demanding and pressuring all women to become politicians even if they don't want to, this doesn't count as being forced into new roles rather than being freed from them.

If you're going to try to make an argument that women don't have more freedom and options in life than they did before feminism, you might have a hard time. :wink:


So I agree to some parts. So there actually are "radical battlefeminists" telling women, that they are betraying feminism if they dare to choose the role of housemom, "freely becoming slaves of patriarchy again" ........... but feminists are different as are humans, so from my personal oppinion feminism is about having the right to accept your own deeds, and not getting told to ignore your deeds because they dont fit into society. According to this, these battle feminists are no better then people 50 years ago telling woman that all of them have to stay at home. A woman that is forced to stay at home by her social surrounding, when she wants to have an career is as unhappy as a woman that wants to stay at home, and is forced to concentrate on her job because of some "battle feminists", in my opinion. So for me feminism is the acceptance of your own deeds, anyway if you are a woman or a man.

So I dont think that people become more unisex, because it would mean, that people are the same. Instead people accept themselfs and create by doing so a much broader variety then in earlier days, when you simply had one sight on men and one sight of women.


However, 'Battle Feminists' are always good to have when you play 'Sex Wars: The Official Card Game' and they make a good class to play as in the RPG, too.


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25 Mar 2013, 1:48 pm

If I have to pee bad enough I'll go into the men's room.No man has ever complained.But I don't know if the ladies feel the same.I don't care,if you gotta go then go!! !


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GGPViper
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25 Mar 2013, 1:52 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
However, 'Battle Feminists' are always good to have when you play 'Sex Wars: The Official Card Game' and they make a good class to play as in the RPG, too.

Image



ruveyn
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25 Mar 2013, 2:34 pm

Misslizard wrote:
If I have to pee bad enough I'll go into the men's room.No man has ever complained.But I don't know if the ladies feel the same.I don't care,if you gotta go then go!! !


Have you ever tried to pee standing up? That would be a memorable sight.

ruveyn



ArrantPariah
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25 Mar 2013, 2:48 pm

mercifullyfree wrote:
scapegoating blacks for lowering wages much like you are scapegoating working women. Funny how nothing seems to make the slightest dent in executive wages.


I'm not saying that women in the workforce are necessarily bad, nor that depressed wages are necessarily bad. Only that there are tradeoffs, and the results are not always as rosy as one would like.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to find a man who is financially capable of supporting a wife and her brood. With women pretty much coming to dominate the workforce, union membership is at an all time low, and unions are being incessantly undermined, even in Michigan.

A single-earner household has become much less of an option.

You see a lot of Americans working so hard, knocking themselves out, basically for nothing.

Of course the rich are going to become richer. There isn't anything that anyone can do about it. The rich own the cable news channels, and control what passes for public discourse in this God-forsaken country. I don't see that turning around.



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25 Mar 2013, 3:11 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
I'm not saying that women in the workforce are necessarily bad, nor that depressed wages are necessarily bad. Only that there are tradeoffs, and the results are not always as rosy as one would like.


Considering that most of these supposed trade offs have a lot more to do with a kleptocratic economic and political system than with equal rights for women, I still can't really agree. As someone who does not want a life revolving around taking care of a "brood", having more rights, options, and choices has been quite positive.