Help me defend myself

Page 3 of 3 [ 47 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3

Previous topic | Next topic

Janissy
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 May 2009
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,450
Location: x

11 Apr 2013, 8:34 am

Dox47 wrote:

No one is talking about hitting a woman in anger, we're talking about self defense, and the double standard that says that if you're a man you're not "allowed" to hit a woman that is attacking you, which is BS. Equality is equality, and you gotta take the bad with the good.

Unless they're suffering from dementia, I see no reason to exempt the elderly from ordinary rules of self defense, which means if you try and hurt me I'm going to stop you, without much regard for your physical well being. With children, it depends upon what age you're choosing to cut that definition off at; I've seen teenagers called children before, and I'd do a lot more than hit a teen who was trying to strangle me or otherwise use potentially deadly force.

You can block a punch without hitting back. Parents of kids+teens who have meltdowns (which is not limited to AS kids) do this . It's the ones who don't do this who wind up in the news for injuring or killing their kids. Parents who are attacked by their kids are expected to respond with the least force they can use to end the attack. The only threats allowed are non-violent threats. You can threaten to send your kid to military school or to call the police but you can't threaten to shoot them. This includes teenage boys (who tend to be stronger than their parents). Parents are expected to defend themselves without shooting, threatening to shoot, or even punch.

Parents deflect attacks from their teenage boys (not routinely, but it does sometimes happen) so a man should be able to figure out a way to defend himself from a woman (if she does not have a knife or gun) without getting in a fistfight with her.

[Some dads have been known to get in fistfights with their teenage sons but that isn't socially or legally acceptable.]

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,921
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

11 Apr 2013, 9:19 am

Hopetobe wrote:

As a women I strongly hate men hitting or committing any violence against women (bad cursing to a woman also counts) and I´m in shock to read this topic, to read here from you all how you defend it. Call me sexist, but the fact is men are (at least physically) stronger than women and NO man-to-woman violence I find acceptable. Even if a woman hits you first, you can solve the problem in a different way than hitting her.

What if there isn't another way to solve the problem, if someone is coming at you are you going to take the time to think about being careful not to hurt them or are you going to be reacting and defending yourself?

and what woman to man violence is acceptable? I hate double standards.

_________________
We won't go back.

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,921
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

11 Apr 2013, 9:25 am

Hopetobe wrote:

Of course, if the woman strangles you or something similar, that´s a different situation, then you have no other option to save your life than to restrain her physically. But hitting her just in anger for whatever reason is wrong.

BTW would you also hit a child if he/she were strangling you or something similar? Or an elderly person?

I don't think anyone here was arguing that a man should hit a woman just out of anger or some other unnecessary reason.

_________________
We won't go back.

Steinhauser
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 16 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 29

11 Apr 2013, 9:26 am

Women are not defenseless. They have a secret weapon, called "every white knight within earshot."

[youtube]mod. edit: videos depicting violence are not permitted on the site[/youtube]

[youtube]mod. edit: videos depicting violence are not permitted on the site[/youtube]

Women hit men because they know it's actually men who are defenseless. No one will defend a man being hit by a woman. As soon as he hits back, other men will attack him.

Jono
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,657
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

11 Apr 2013, 12:48 pm

Janissy wrote:

Parents deflect attacks from their teenage boys (not routinely, but it does sometimes happen) so a man should be able to figure out a way to defend himself from a woman (if she does not have a knife or gun) without getting in a fistfight with her.

What happens when women a physically abusive towards men? Usually, if a woman hits a man, it can excused as self-defence but it doesn't work the other way round.

Janissy
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 May 2009
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,450
Location: x

11 Apr 2013, 1:04 pm

Jono wrote:

Janissy wrote:

What happens when women a physically abusive towards men? Usually, if a woman hits a man, it can excused as self-defence but it doesn't work the other way round.

He should do the same thing that women are told to do in that situation which is to get away and press charges.

The most famous (that I know of) example of handling this properly is in the case is the case of Tawney Kitain and Chuck Finley. The case got famous because she used to be a model in heavy metal videos and he was a pro baseball player. When she hit him he didn't hit her back. He divorced her and pressed charges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawny_Kitaen

Quote:

n 2002, Kitaen was charged with domestic violence for an incident involving her then-husband, professional baseball player Chuck Finley.[11] Three days later, Finley filed for divorce.[11] After a plea bargain, Kitaen agreed to "enter a spousal battery counseling program and avoid contact with Finley."[11] The couple was married for five years and have two daughters, Wynter and Raine.[12]

He divorced her and got her charged with domestic violence. That's the right way for men to handle it (and women). Not punching back.

Jono
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,657
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

11 Apr 2013, 3:43 pm

Janissy wrote:

Jono wrote:

Janissy wrote:

What happens when women a physically abusive towards men? Usually, if a woman hits a man, it can excused as self-defence but it doesn't work the other way round.

Quote:

He divorced her and got her charged with domestic violence. That's the right way for men to handle it (and women). Not punching back.

In that case, I agree with that.

naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

11 Apr 2013, 3:52 pm

The OP needs held "defending" himself verbally when he argues in favor of "defending" himself physically?

Are these folks who verbally attack you-bigger, or smaller than you?

Lol!

Why stop at adult women? How 'bout children?

If a foaming at the mouth demonically possessed five year old child with a big machete comes at an adult man - the man probably has the right to use physical force to defend himself.

The OP doesnt need our help in thinking of any number of hypothetical situations in which (it might be persuasively argued) that an adult man has the right to take a two by foor to an adult woman or to a child. But how many of these situations would be common occurances?

Maybe these people you argue with are wrong to be so emotional in opposing you. Maybe they are at fault for not patiently deconstructing what you say on the issue- and they jump to the conclusion that you are advocating wife beating.

But- why are you so demanding of others on this issue in the first place?

We all have to pick our fights. Why are you so invested in this as an issue?

Do you (the OP) live in constant terror that woman will drag you off into an alley and rape you- and dismember you-or what?

UnLoser
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 655

11 Apr 2013, 4:00 pm

I fully support a person's right to use physical aggression in self-defense, no matter the gender of the attacker or victim.

AceOfSpades wrote:

Men are still the heavier hitters though so a man hitting a woman is still much worse than the other way around.

Err... what? A woman who's seriously trying to hurt someone will hit harder than a man who's hitting to deter, but not harm, someone weaker than him. Establishing a broad rule that "it's worse for men to hit women" makes no sense. You should always consider the situation.

visagrunt
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Vancouver, BC

11 Apr 2013, 4:39 pm

TrainofLove wrote:

... I have a whole page now written down from NZ law which states this is legal. (I've only compiled this writing on paper tonight).
...
I'm now the bad guy with the Teachers/tutors and was then told that no laws in the word allow violence, or words to that matter.

You don't need help, you have the winning argument already.

If the law says that a person may use reasonable force in self-defence, then those who claim that "no laws in the world allow violence," are clearly wrong.

_________________
--James

GGPViper
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,880

11 Apr 2013, 4:54 pm

Take 10 copies of Section 48 in The Crimes Act of 1961... distribute... and call the doctor in the morning...

TrainofLove
Velociraptor

Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 416
Location: New Zealand

02 May 2013, 10:30 am

GGPViper wrote:

Take 10 copies of Section 48 in The Crimes Act of 1961... distribute... and call the doctor in the morning...

I've got a whole page with that written down, along with 2 other sources stating it's still in current effect as law.

I'm gonna go slightly off topic here later on, but please bear with with guys.

It's currently the "school" holidays, and I was under the assumption it was last week and this week. But my mother was rung up yesterday asking why I wasn't at course. Never mind that the roster in my classroom told me it was two weeks off, and that nobody told me otherwise. Anyway's i'm not going back till next week anyway's, as i'm recovering from the flu.

Now the off topic bit. I've been documenting and writing down everything they've been doing, as I haven't been getting work, waiting for assessment's to be marked, and acusations etc...

This is what i've most recently written down on paper (edited a bit to remove references to tutors and the place in question):

Quote:

Mum was rung up asking where I was. Never mind that the toast roster in my classroom told me it was two weeks off. No one let me know otherwise. It's about the only thing they've owned up to. I am not going back until Monday as i'm still stick with a cold. Also something about prostitution. They said something about I'm innapropriate and looked or talked about prostitution. In no way ever have I watched or talked about anything to do with prostitution at any time (i'm still confused about this acusation). These dubious and false claims are starting to piss me off.

On another topic, I was told I need to let others have their opinion. This is what I already do currently. They seem to simply want to just shut me up and not speak about about my opinions because they are different from the "social norm". Note that none of the opinions I have put across are Illegal and I have checked current legal documentation to safe guard myself. I was also told during the last week 2 weeks ago when I went home at lunch (after having nothing to do all morning) that I was slacking around. I'm not sure how doing every tiny little bit of work they give me (when they do give me work) is slacking off. Over four weeks now and am still waiting for assessments to be marked, and I almost guarantee that when I go back on Monday that it will be no different.

I get up every morning, attend with an open mind, but am continually crushed, told that I'm bad, and that I need to more or less conform to "Social norms". I would like to paraphrase the classic New Wave/Punk band "DEVO" on their thoughts on conforming to social norms, they state "If you obey society's rules, you'll be society's fool". I agree with this lyric and will not be conforming to social norms just to make people happy. Another odd thing is that the student's are all fine with me, and I've got along fine with them. It seems to just be both *two tutors* that have the problem. Even all the other tutors are yet to have a problem with me and all currently smile and say hello.

My previous peices of paper have dates and times from when other things have occured. But this is the only way i'm gonna get my NCEA credits so I can go to Polytech (google's your friend if you don't know the NZ system).

It's basically two female tutors who are the problem (my actual tutor left for unknown reasons, I posted about this months ago in another thread). If it couldn't get any worse, the worst of the two tutors has a son with Aspergers! Yes, i'm being serious.

They don't seem to like that I don't take s**t and question things and call them out on things (as respectful as I can be of course, I'm not a dick about it).

Sorry for going off topic, I just needed to vent.

_________________
"He was slower than a nudist trying to climb a barbed wire fence" - Benny Hill

visagrunt
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Vancouver, BC

02 May 2013, 12:05 pm

Let's refocus a moment here.

Our particular social disability can create difficult relationships, especially with people in authority. But your relationships with people in authority are crucial. Unless you have a private income, or the social skills to become a successful entrepreneur, then you are going to have to deal with teachers, instructors, professors, supervisors, managers and directors for all of your learning and working life. So the question becomes, are people in authority allowed to be wrong? Are people in authority allowed to persist in their errors?

Sometimes their errors are dangerous, and it is important to demonstrate that. Other times, however, the simplest course of action is to let it go. The trick that we have to learn (and it took me decades) is to distinguish between them.

If you will indulge me, I will draw a comparison with my own life. I work in the public service. One core competence of my job is giving my Minister accurate and non-partisan advice--to speak truth to power. But once the Minister has made a decision, it's my job to carry it out, whether I agree with it or not. I may know more than the Minister; and I might even know better than the Minister. But I am not the Minister, and it is he who is answerable to Parliament, not me.

That's on a somewhat different scale than your current difficulties, but I think that the analogy holds. See if you can start to ask yourself the questions, "Does this matter?" "Is this an appropriate time and place to speak?" and, "Is what I am going to say appropriate to the discussion?" That doesn't mean you have to be bound to only speak when the answers are all, "Yes," but you may find yourself in a better position if you have a clear idea of why you are speaking when one or more of those answers is, "No."

_________________
--James

John_Browning
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range

02 May 2013, 1:30 pm

Quote:

I'm now the bad guy with the Teachers/tutors and was then told that no laws in the word allow violence, or words to that matter.

CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE:

692. Lawful resistance to the commission of a public offense may be
made:
1. By the party about to be injured;
2. By other parties.

693. Resistance sufficient to prevent the offense may be made by
the party about to be injured:
1. To prevent an offense against his person, or his family, or
some member thereof.
2. To prevent an illegal attempt by force to take or injure
property in his lawful possession.

694. Any other person, in aid or defense of the person about to be
injured, may make resistance sufficient to prevent the offense.

and

189.5. (a) Upon a trial for murder, the commission of the homicide
by the defendant being proved, the burden of proving circumstances of
mitigation, or that justify or excuse it, devolves upon the
defendant, unless the proof on the part of the prosecution tends to
show that the crime committed only amounts to manslaughter, or that
the defendant was justifiable or excusable.
(b) Nothing in this section shall apply to or affect any
proceeding under Section 190.3 or 190.4.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=692-694
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=187-199

Additionally, there are castle doctrine stand your ground laws in other states.

For international law, see the Geneva convention.

_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown

"A fear of weapons is a sign of ret*d sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud

Mike1
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 710

02 May 2013, 6:16 pm

I think I'd feel kind of bad and weird fist fighting a girl. If a girl attacked me though, I don't think I'd hesitate to use pepper spray or a stun gun against them, if I had either of these things on me. I'd just feel too uncomfortable using direct, physical force against a girl.

Page 3 of 3 [ 47 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3

Jump to:

Help me defend myself Post Reply New Topic

Help me defend myself