All the problems with Christianity

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The OP seems to rely on numerology to "prove" his thesis, when he would be better off to focus on "proving" the scientific and historical inerrancy of the Bible.

All the problems with Christianity would end if only Christians would stop trying to "reason" belief into other people, get up off their self-righteous butts, get out into the Missions Field and actually DEMONSTRATE the love that Jesus was trying to teach them!

It appears we've hit a dead end with this argument. We're each convinced the other person has missed something, so maybe we should let some other people voice their objections before this thread gets old and people stop posting on it.
Speaking of which, pain and evil is a problem many people bring up with the idea of an all-powerful and wise God. There are 2 things to keep in mind:
1) Humans are the greatest of all the living things on Earth. We are in a position above everything else in it. When the first people sinned, they used what God created in a way it was not meant to be used. It would only make sense then that the world was affected negatively. And since humans exist in the same world as everything else, we suffered negative effects as well. This is why there is evil in the world
2) It is a fallacy to say that God must not have the best intentions for us because there is evil in the world. This would be like saying that He must have the best intentions for us because there is good in the world; we can't focus on one and ignore the other. There is at least one reason to believe God wants the best for us: If He didn't, He wouldn't have created us in the first place.

Correction: It appears that you've saved no souls with your line of "reasoning", so you have not won your "argument".

That video looks interesting Truth15ful.

This true Christianity, can you point me to it please, maybe a website, or even PM me, I cannot find a single religion that doesn't deviate somewhere significantly from the Bible, I know Jesus said the Great Apostasy come first, but as we are also admonished not to forsake the gathering of ourselves together, I would like to know where to go.

Do you think a strong faith should be invested in conversion of other people? That a Christian who's come to church is "done" with himself and just needs to point the rest to the source of happiness?

By making this statement, you are saying that you believe in the 6 day creation story as six literal days and not evolution or even theistic evolution. Or you haven't thought it through.

There has been suffering and disasters for billions of years on this planet before humans even existed. Animals eating animals, animals suffering and dying from diseases, earthquakes, tsumani's, killer storms. The earth was a very hostile and deadly place full of suffering before man even existed.

So if you choose to blame all the evil and suffering on man's sin, then you can't explain how suffering and evil existed for billions of years before man.


There is also nothing to indicate that we are 'in the top position above everything else.' In fact, the way we are polluting the planet, it may be better off without us. heck, we are not even on the top of the food chain.

Last edited by Cash__ on 15 Jul 2013, 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxc830XrLCc[/youtube]


The good stuff does not make the bad stuff go away.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vweSLmSgO-k[/youtube]
One more thing in regard to this "good or bad"-issue:

Not specifically; but if the religion associated with that faith requires charitable giving and serving the needs of others, then the faith is being wasted in trying to convert people directly - especially through "reason", and most especially by trying to "reason" with people who know better.


No. That attracts only those people who are looking to be happy; and when Christianity no longer makes them happy, they will leave the church to find happiness elsewhere.

I'm not that concerned if this thread dies. I agree with Tallyman's statement though:


So I am not labeling this a matter of indifference where we're not sure about how this plays out. Time delay is exactly what a computational device would do. This argument fails to make the case.


Right, but what do you mean by "first people sinned". If it's Adam and Eve, then I've already addressed how the story can't be true: http://biologos.org/blog/does-genetics- ... mal-couple

Even further as Cash___ points out earlier, there are a lot of instances of bad things in the world that look like they would have happened long before sin would have occurred. I mean, unless you're going to blame sin for altering the laws of physics such that tornadoes, hurricanes, and earthquakes occur, then those would have existed before the first sin.

I also don't think that the sort of free will you'd want to explain sin exists in reality, even in the theology. So, in the neuroscience of this there are a slew of reasons to doubt that human beings express a non-deterministic will, and if they do not, then the independent actions of man are not a good explanation, the ultimate cause of evil would be God. Even within Christian theology though, it's hard to see how human beings actually exercise independent agency if they exist within God's plan and act to enact that plan, as this God will have set up all of the dominoes such that the desired conclusion will occur. So, if God is so much in control of the situation that he can enact a plan, to what extent can we separate him out to not make him the author of evil? It seems to me that any being with enough power to implement a plan would also have to have some culpability if this plan has a bad outcome.


Err... no, the symmetry does not exist.

So, if there is unnecessary and unjustified evil, then this is proof that he cannot have the best intentions, as the best intentions tend to entail the non-existence of unnecessary and unjustified evils. However, the existence of good leading to the best intentions is just a faulty deduction, as good is evidence but only insufficient evidence.

Also, I am not failing at my focus at all. My point is really that this God is described as perfectly good. The world seems to not be what we would intuitively expect for a perfectly good being at all, or even in the ballpark. It is qualitatively flawed in ways that are not well explained.

Finally, your last reason... doesn't actually prove anything. People make kids all of the time and sometimes for bad or stupid reasons. And some visions of God don't involve God wanting the best for us, so a Calvinist God has made some people from the beginning just to damn them. This isn't for their good, but it is about as logically compatible with the facts of the universe as normal Christianity.

There is but it belongs to no book, no religion, or no man. It is free for everyone.

Christianity that restricts true will to path of that light of true Christ that exists, is the greatest offense anyone could apply to their brother/sister.

The walls of those restrictions are falling down forever in the E-World.

The chains that man attempts to put on the one true light are breaking as we speak.

I don't see how it is a fallacy. Disregarding the extreme likelihood that "good" and "evil" are both a matter of human opinion, if there is evil in the world, then one cannot say that God (assuming he exists) must therefore have the best intentions for us, as a world without evil is logically better than a world with evil.

If you believe that evil exists, then God does not have the best intentions for us.

If you believe that good exists, then it still doesn't mean that God has the best intentions for us because of the idea that evil still exists alongside good.

It comes down to smallestunits... existencelife...positivenegativepositive...actionconsequenceaction...humans apply the emotion of imagination to reality.

Humans create their Gods and Devils as an amusementpasstimeinspiration to continue I ON. There is...no 1 in the E Y E of all there is...no E Y E in the 1 of I.

Just like 'God', neither good nor evil exist except in terms of human definition.

truth15ful, thank you for posting this thread! I think it is much needed and that you are doing a great job!

me thanks you too1!

A lot of my reasons I am against "Christianity" is covered by You-tuber Evid3nc3 in his playlist "Why I am no longer a Christian"
Personally I have been emotionally and intellectually worn down by "extremists". To which I lived off and on "Christianity" for a years in my life until recently. It was the most awful time in my life spending time with these people.
Note: Not every Christian is like this. The people I dealt with quite literally spent all their time talking about their religion. It was insanity.

Thanks truth15ul this thread was definitely quite interesting.