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Greb
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11 Aug 2013, 7:08 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY[/youtube]

And as a bonus:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giiapwYL2U8[/youtube]


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GGPViper
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11 Aug 2013, 7:52 am

/\ Well, the first video was pretty accurate, especially with regards to Naskh (abrogation), which is often overlooked.

However, he should probably have included a description the central status of the Hadith in Sunni Islam, as several of the Hudud offences mentioned in the video are from the Sunnah, not the Qur'an itself.

Second one, tl:dw.

For those like me who *hate* long (> 2 minutes) YouTube videos, here are the wiki links to the 2 central issues discussed in the first video:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_%28tafsir%29

Anyway, a more detailed description of Naskh can be found in the work by John Burton - The Sources of Islamic Law: Islamic Theories of Abrogation (mostly based on Al-Shafi‘i, the "founding father" of Islamic jurisprudence):
http://www.amazon.com/The-Sources-Islam ... 0748601082

Burton is the primary source for the Wiki article on Naskh, BTW, but his book is not an easy read.

Furthermore, with regard to the "peaceful vs. violent" verses: The scope of Naskh imposed by the infamous "Verse of The Sword" (Qur'an 9:5) is debated within Islamic literature, with some claiming that it abrogated no verses in Qur'an (smells a bit like Taqiyya, as this would make it extremely difficult to reconcile the Qur'an and the Sunnah), and others claiming that it abrogated up to 113 verses. However, the Tafsir ibn Kathir from around 1370, likely the most famous Sunni commentary on the Qur'an, provided the following interpretation:

This honorable Ayah (9:5) was called the Ayah of the Sword, about which Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim said,

"It abrogated every agreement of peace between the Prophet and any idolator, every treaty, and every term.''


Source:
http://www.quran4u.com/Tafsir%20Ibn%20K ... 8%A5%D9%90

This suggests - at the very least - that 9:5 is one of the most important verses, if not the most important, in the Qur'an, when it comes to Naskh. At least in Sunni Islam.



Greb
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11 Aug 2013, 8:25 am

^^ I highly recommend the second one too. It explains the story of Mohammad, that it's quite unknown in the western world. It starts at minute 4:00 and it's far from being boring. Jump directly to 4:00, and give it a chance.

----------------------

By the way. A bonus. A conference about the history of Islam or what it's usually unknown.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y[/youtube]


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The_Walrus
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11 Aug 2013, 6:02 pm

It's amazing how people manage to spin Taqiyya into a bad thing.

Muslims being allowed to lie about being a Muslim if they are threatened seems incredibly sensible to me. Christians, on the other hand, are expected to always admit to being a Christian, even if it results in their death- see St Peter denying Jesus.

Unless you're Immanuel Kant and think lying is always wrong regardless of circumstances, or you are from a branch of Islam that does not allow it, then you should praise Taqiyya.



Greb
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12 Aug 2013, 3:29 pm

Well, quite sensible for them. If you're the one fooled, I'm not sure that you would so happy with it.

And it's very important since it has to remainded that anything said about the islamic agenda can be a lie since from the point of view of islam it's morally correct to fool the unbelievers.


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The_Walrus
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12 Aug 2013, 5:36 pm

Greb wrote:
Well, quite sensible for them. If you're the one fooled, I'm not sure that you would so happy with it.

Why do you care?

If, for example, someone was going to beat up homosexuals, then I think a homosexual would be within their rights to deny their sexuality if that person asked them. I don't care if the aggressor is haunted by the knowledge that some got away.



Ancalagon
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12 Aug 2013, 5:52 pm

Greb wrote:
Jump directly to 4:00, and give it a chance.

That's an 18 minute video. You want us to watch 14 minutes of it. You clearly did not spend 14 minutes writing the text to describe it.

In general, if someone wants me to watch a video about something, but is too lazy to bother describing it in any detail, I find that I am too lazy to watch their video. (P.S. - I'm not going to watch the 45 minute video with the one sentence description either.)


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Greb
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12 Aug 2013, 6:09 pm

Ancalagon wrote:
Greb wrote:
Jump directly to 4:00, and give it a chance.

That's an 18 minute video. You want us to watch 14 minutes of it. You clearly did not spend 14 minutes writing the text to describe it.

In general, if someone wants me to watch a video about something, but is too lazy to bother describing it in any detail, I find that I am too lazy to watch their video. (P.S. - I'm not going to watch the 45 minute video with the one sentence description either.)


What? I want you to watch this video? And who the f**k are you?

I don't know who the f**k you are. I never heard of you. Wanting you to watch this video? What s**t is that?

Seriously, I don't know what's wrong with people nowadays. I still remember those days when I had to program the VHS recorder to get a one hour or two hours documentary because it was broadcasted really late in the night, and wait until weekend so the TV was free to be able to watch it.

Today you only have to make a click, and it's completely free to watch it or not, this is not Orwell's 1984, nobody is forcing to enter this thread or watching this video, easy and free but you still demand a resume because 14 minutes, fourteen minutes, is too f*****g much. Not ask politely 'why is the video interesting?' but to demand. And to demand from a person you don't know and that owes you nothing.

Anyway...


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