The 2013 Top Ten Anti-Israel Groups in the U.S.

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Funny. That actually made me chuckle.

Now... Source?

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?opt ... mival=9509

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_righ ... _of_Israel

http://rt.com/news/jerusalem-islam-ikrima-sabri-218/

Last edited by thomas81 on 22 Oct 2013, 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GGPViper,
clearly to me that you also are an patrol pro- jewish stuff on web.

great, just what this thread needs, a genuine anti-semite.

Are you still here? The Moderators must have missed my report about your "Devil Jew" claims...

Now rectified...

I think Tony Blair and thomas81 should stay away from any middle east solution, no that Thomas is offering a solution.

Mr Galloway gives an excellent dismantlement of zionist arguments here.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-qV6IJm_F4[/youtube]

Code pink?
Jewish voice for peace?

Really?
http://jstreet.org/blog/post/j-street-a ... oductive_1

Seconded.

It's pretty noticeable, at least as noticeable as my gun advocacy, or LKL's feminism, for example, and we don't try to deny what we are.

I've heard of J Street. They seem to be yet another group posing as pro-Israel.

Also, the ADL ran the list last year. They've actually removed some real nasties like the Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas-linked CAIR because they're no longer indulging in as much anti-Israel activism.

Here's an interesting story on 'Zionist BDS'. The antisemitic history of Jewish boycotts has been noted:

http://hurryupharry.org/2013/10/23/zion ... not-exist/

And a good article on 'pinkwashing', where Irish secularist (and ex-Labour Party activist) Anne Marie Waters demolishes the claims made by LGBT anti-Israel groups by showing that a) Israel has a better record on LGBT issues than Britain and b) that the PA and Hamas has an awful record on gay rights:

http://www.d-intl.com/2013/10/20/no-mea ... l/?lang=en

(Reminds me of a gay pro-Palestinian group who went to Israel and no-one had any problem with their sexuality. When they stopped in 'Palestine' however, they were told not to disclose or display their sexuality. Instructive.

Do you mean anti Israeli or anti Jewish boycotts? Please don't try to obfuscate or confuse the two.

If you bothered to watch the Galloway video which I presume you haven't, he completely destroyed this slur campaign.




The problem is its almost impossible to make a stake for civil gains such as LGBT expression while other basic ones are being ignored. Case in point, equal treatment and non-ostracisation on the basis of race, creed or religion. Ignoring these very basic tenants gives political currency for extremists like Hamas. In the west, LGBT gains were'nt made until the standard of life was greatly higher than what it is in Palestine today. The same standards hold true there. Most Pro-Palestine supporters want the homophobes out of power but understand that this can't be acheived until the blockade of Gaza has been lifted, a contiguous bridge between Gaza and the West Bank is established and that the Palestinians have a fair and equal say over the handling and distribution of their rightful resources. If you look at anywhere else in the world, theres a correlation between poverty, access to education and LGBT equality. Palestine is no exception. Its intellectually unfair to assume it should be.

'Pinkwashing' on the other hand, is a very real phenomenon though. Its a tired practice by Israel and its supporters to detract and divert criticism for the other ways in which Israel mistreats arabs. As if being liberal on LGBT issues gives it a carte blanche to make assaults on other fronts.

These Israel supporters are selectively pro-LGBT (ie when it suits their agenda). In the west, they are usually the last to vote in favour of things like gay marriage or the right of gay couples to adopt children. This is demonstratably true if you observe the habits of western pro Israeli conservative lobbies. Now, compare that to the (mainly palestine supportive) left wing who are always the most vocal in terms of championing these gains. Its very telling how right wingers and Israel advocates couldn't give a toss about LGBT rights under other circumstances beyond the middle east context, but when it comes to Israel, they are tripping over themselves to grab their rainbow flags. THAT people, is pinkwashing.

On Press TV, owned by the government of Iran.

Seriously, thomas81, you are the epitome of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

My answer to that? Why single out Israel for a boycott? There are other countries, literally right next door, that have an immeasurably worse record on human rights, terrorism and treatment of religious and other minorities than Israel.

The Arab League boycott was and is antisemitic because they did not want to see any Jewish self-determination in the Middle East. They are singling out Jews.

In the Middle East, being anti-Israel and antisemitic usually goes hand in hand. They want Israel gone because they don't want Jews living in the Middle East. They showed that with the pogroms in the 1940s (heard of the Farhud in Iraq?) and the 700,000 Jews that left, fled or were forced out after 1948. If Israel ceased to exist tomorrow and Arabs became a majority, one of the first things they'd start doing is start with the anti-Jewish pogroms. Think Hebron in 1929, when the Jews were massacred there. Also remember that the Jews massacred there were not from the Yishuv, but were mostly the descendants of age-old dhimmi communities. If the Arabs ever 'liberate Palestine', they are going to want all Jews driven out or killed.

If you look at recent PA anti-Israel propaganda, they invoke classic Quranic antisemitism. They equate classic Islamic legends regarding the Jewish tribes of Arabia in the 7th century as a basis for advocating that Jews (there were no Israelis in the 7th century) are untrustworthy in the modern day:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydQGUGtvxtw[/youtube]

Oh, and also? Just over the last few days, the Palestinian Authority has again printed quotes that they falsely attribute to Adolf Hitler (http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=9882).

As for Galloway: he was scared. His hands were trembling. He looks like a tired old man, and not well at all. He didn't like being called a racist when that was clearly what he was. If he had the courage of his convictions, he could have argued Eylon (the Israeli that he refused to debate) and each could have put her point across. He could have acted like a man and shown his convictions. Instead, he ran away. The problem is that the Israeli would have made him look bad. The Israeli would have set the audience straight about Israel's status in the words and a few facts about Israel. Most would probably not have been convinced (people at these debates tend to have very entrenched opinions both for and against - it's just the way it is), but a few may have.

I'm explicitly not comparing Israel to Saudi Arabia here Israel but, let's say as an example, that Saudi Arabia was the subject of a debate. Say that there are a very anti-Saudi (and anti-Islam) speaker on one side, and a Saudi Muslim (at the moment, that's basically a tautology, at least officially - it's illegal to be a non-Muslim Saudi citizen)hat person refused to debate him because he was a Saudi Muslim, you would be screaming your head off with calls of racism. Do you know what? You'd be absolutely right to as well. But because he's an Israeli, that racism is acceptable.

I seriously think that elements of the left have trouble recognising their own racism, and don't like having it pointed out to them. You can't even begin to recognise it when it's blatantly obvious to others.

I don't like Saudi Arabia. I think it's a massive open-air mental asylum, and I feel pretty bad for the people there who aren't rabidly, obsessively religious and that just want to live a normal life. But I would never for one minute call for its destruction or annihilation. I do laugh at some of the hilarious stuff the clerics come out with, but I also think that perhaps we in Europe would have said similar things not so long ago. I find the Saudi mentality a fascinating one in that for us it's a glimpse into the past when religion ruled the roost.

I would like to see peaceful reforms take place there, and presently I'm absolutely delighted that the Saudi lassies are giving the clerical fascists that rule that country a bloody good headache. They're standing up for themselves and not making a bad show of it either!

See here:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuTIbEdScfc[/youtube]

I wish Lamia Bukhari the best of luck.



Ha ha.
issues than Britain and b) that the PA and Hamas has an awful record on gay rights:[/quote]



It's very possible. But Islam prevents it. How many Muslim countries can you name me where gays are tolerated and not harassed, and where homosexuality is legal? Come on. Try me. I can think of perhaps one or two where they're relatively safe. And only one is in the Middle East. In most of the Middle East, homosexuality is illegal. This is a problem with Islam. (Hell, even Mehdi "as a Muslim" Hasan admits it in the case of the homophobia of British Muslims.)

Take a look at how Christians are being persecuted in Judea and Samaria and Gaza. In fact, Christians have been leaving PA- and Hamas-controlled areas in their thousands. Where have they been going, I wonder? The country that has been accepting them has a white background, two blue lines on the top and bottom of the flag, and in the centre is a glorious blue Star of David. It's the only place in the Middle East where Christians are truly safe. They're not safe in Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Iraq, and they don't even exist in Saudi Arabia. (Incidentally, Israeli Christians are even more successful than Israeli Jews.)

Here's some links firstly to do with Gaza - look at this lovely Islamic tolerance!

http://www.persecution.org/2013/07/21/c ... h-closure/
http://www.persecution.org/2013/06/19/h ... s-in-gaza/
http://www.persecution.org/2013/06/07/c ... e-in-gaza/

And a general story about the Arab Muslim persecution of Christians in the disputed territories:

http://www.christianity.com/11561093/

More about that sectarian war against Christians in Syria:

http://www.persecution.org/2012/12/17/s ... ddle-east/

In 2010, the last Christian broadcaster in the disputed territories was forcibly shut down by your lovely 'Palestinian' Authority:

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Palestin ... 17912.html

In fact, here is just one of many updates about the Muslim persecution of Christians across the Islamic world, dating from April 2012. Raymond Ibrahim is an Arab Christian:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3065/ ... april-2012

By the way: consider the story of the Palestinian Christians' disappearance from Bethlehem. Since 1995, the city has been under Palestinian civil control, which has altered the demographics by changing boundaries, and its present population includes 20,000 Christians, one third of the population. Two decades ago, Christians accounted for 75 percent of the city's population.



Alright then, fair do's.

Why is homosexuality illegal in Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates? These are all obscenely rich oil states. They are the most well-developed and richest places on this planet. Why is it punishable by a prison sentence in most of these places? Why is it that, in Saudi Arabia, homosexuality is punishable by death?

The reason why these places are so homophobic is not hard to figure out. What happens in Saudi Arabia is nothing to do with poor living standards. It's solely down to the religion of



You want the (entirely legal) blockade of Gaza lifted so that Hamas and Islamic Jihad can massacre Israeli civilians.

Sorry, 'old bean', not going to happen.

Hamas are a threat to everyone living there - 'Palestinian', Egyptian and Israeli. Remove them and their like from power, install a non-terrorist regime and Israel will happily talk to them about removing the boundary if they can be shown that they can behave themselves.

Similarly, drop the constant terrorist rhetoric and the attacks on Israelis and similarly, the wall separating Israeli settlements and 'Palestinian' communities will also come down.

No country in the world would open its border to a territory whose terrorist 'army' are busy firing rockets at it. Get real.



Pro-Israel support comes from across the political spectrum in the West. They are of many flavours.

Ah, but those 'Palestinian' supporters (really just anti-Israel bandwagon-jumpers) could do themselves and their 'friends' all a favour and encourage them to not be such Islamic bigots. Well, it's worth a try.

Do you have evidence for any of this boring rant or not? The point is that Israel is a very liberal society in the main. 'Palestinian' society is illiberal, intolerant and patriarchal.

Did you know that the Tel Aviv gay pride parades are the place to be in the Middle East? I'm not a fan of them myself (and I don't pretend to be either) but it sure is a sharp contrast. Women and others (like religious minorities) have equal rights too. The Christian population of Israel is flourishing. I'm very happy about that.

Last edited by Tequila on 24 Oct 2013, 3:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Oh, yes, and I've found a new blog I rather like:

http://badnewsfromthenetherlands.blogspot.co.uk/

Tequila is a mendacious debater. Not only is he trying to distract from the specific Israel vs Palestine theatre by creating a grander, culturalist muslims vs judeo-christian narrative to justify Israel's behaviour, but he has got his facts wrong. For one, that the blockade of gaza is legal. Its not. its collective punishment and an undeclared occupation on gaza.
More publicly acknowledged war crimes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine

Singling out Israel for boycotts equates to anti-semitism? Lest we forget that the proto-Zionist movement was anti-semitic in its origins, because it was spearheaded by bigots who wanted Jews out of their country. A significant core of Jews are proud of their diasporic tradition and do not want Judaism misrepresented as a form of trite nationalism. In that respect Israel has little to do with Judaism and even less to do with protecting the well being and interests of individual Jews. It set up for the interests and dictates of secular states and companies while most Jews living overseas in Europe and America enjoy better living standards and security than they ever could in Israel. The fact that it has thriving Christian communities (which you even proudly underline) just goes to show that Israel is increasingly not about the Jewish identity. Its a westernised watchdog-outpost to surpervise the interests of Euro-American oil giants on the borders of oil rich states. The only reason Amnesty international refuse to add Israel to the top of their list of human rights abusers is because they are terrified of losing the funding from wealthy sponsors.

As for the idea that the land on which the Palestinians were living is free game because they never had a state, the issue should be international humanitarian law. People don't have the right to be pauperise other groups and burn down their olive groves, hundreds of years old, or allowing pregnant women to die at checkpoints just because historically, they don't have a government. The state doesn't need rights; people do. or otherwise cleansed from their land just because they are stateless or fail to live up to western cultural norms. If that were true, it would justify milennia of persecution against the Jews. In regards to punishing the people of Gaza for the actions of hamas, its a crime against humanity to punish an entire population for crimes like indiscriminately firing rockets by a very specific group of combatants. The settlement and annexation of those settlements by Israel has a precedent - Germany's Sudetenland policy during the 3rd Reich.

In regards to homophobia, its a nonsense to pin it wholly on Islam, it is a religious and in some places, a cultural issue. Homosexuality was only legalised in China as recently as the late 80's and almost all of Christian Africa, the Caribbean, Russia and Latin America are hotbeds of homophobia with legal measures against homosexual expression in many countries including those with christian majorities.