I have missed all the responses... I thought no-one was interested. Sorry about that.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
...their aura is of crystal color - crystal clear, but can also carry opalescent tones of gold, indigo-blue and magenta.
opalescent would describe every colour, this is beginning to sound like a Barnum statement.
Well... I think most New Age stuff sounds like Barnum statements. But it was not "opalescent any color", it was "opalescent tones of gold, indigo-blue and magenta". Opalescent describes a quality of color, and not all colors are opalescent.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
Some of the characteristics and traits:
- they are wanted children, and their mothers and other family can have unusual experiences during the pregnancy. Sometimes they communicate with their mothers already as fetus.
- they are often big babies with disproportionally big head.
- they are calm and "good" babies, and bond intensely with their mothers, even to the extend of clinging.
- they are seldom first or only child in the family
Classic barnum statement, these apply to all babies.
No, they don't. Not all children are wanted, not all "mothers and other family" have unusual experiences during the pregnancy, not all mothers feel they communicate with their unborn babies, not all babies are big, not all babies have disproportionally big head (compared to other babies, that is. Not compared to other human beings of different ages.), not all babies are "calm and good", not all babies are not first nor the only child.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they have large, bright and clear eyes and steady, intense gaze. They do that already as babies. Their gaze is almost hypnotic and they seem to be able to see straight through you and not only read your mind but also your heart.
Babies eyes are proportionally larger, any parent spends a lot of time looking into them, and they can't actually focus on you at any distance for some months after birth.
Not all babies give the impression of having a "steady, intense gaze".
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they seem to be wise beyond their years and older than they are
Every loving parent believes their child is an overacheiver.
Not every parent is loving, and not every loving parent who believes their child is an overachiever (or more developed than other children) think their child is wise beyond their years and older than they are.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they have an inherent ability to uncover people’s fear – they seem to connect and know what is in one’s head and heart.
And how would a baby voice this? Is it psychic powers all the way down?
Not every statement on the list is about a person as a baby. Most of it is not. Like this one. Because you are right, a baby would have no means to give that impression.
And as it is New Age stuff, a lot of it is "psychic powers". But what are "psychic powers"? I suppose you know that there is an rational explanation to everything.
What is the rational explanation to the impression one gets of another human being, that they can see through you, that they seem to understand what you are thinking and feeling, that they manage to feel comfortable and you find yourself speaking more than you should, and about such issues like your fears and weaknesses... Perhaps you have never met such people, but a lot of people I have met describe me like that.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they seem to be able to know if you are authenthic, trustworthy, honest
If you love your child you don't leave it with untrustworthy people, so another Barnum statement.
So how can nannies and babysitters harm a child? Are all the children harmed by a childcarer unloved? I don't think so.
Besides, this is one of the statements that is applicable to people of any age.
My husband says that he has a "naked emperor detector". He knows when someone is lying. Do you have that ability?
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they are blissful, happy, delightful and sweet
- they are even-tempered, peaceful, calm, serene and patient
- they are quiet and self-effasive
- they are kind, caring, loving, understanding, gentle and compassionate
So basically what every planned child's parents think about them, given they're not hyperactive.
Do you have children? Most parents wouldn't use these definitions of their child, how ever planned and wished for the child is.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they radiate power, majesty, are natural born leaders
Babies, leading what now? Like kindergarten squads?
Why do you think this was said about babies? Where in my post do I claim I'm talking about babies? Or even children? It might help you to understand that when the New Age community talks about "crystal children" and "indigo children", they are not talking about children, but people, of any age. As "we are all children of the Universal Spirit".
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they have an aura of good fortune and good things, miracles and magic happen when they are around
If miracles and magic existed this piece might have the magic to provide the miracle of a proovable point.
You are hanging on the chosen words. I would like you to see through the words.
Have you ever met people who seem to be unusually lucky? Who win more often than statistically probable. Who manage to avoid accidents and misfortunes that logically should have happened.
And what are "good things, miracles and magic"? Obviously not miracles and magic, but things people usually describe as miraculous or magical. Weird things, odd things, fantastical things, things hard to believe, things that seemingly have no reasonable, rational cause. When things happen that shouldn't happen, but in a good way.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they give an innocent, guileless and pure impression, and seem to be totally unaware of themselves
That is because they are!Ok, go though this again, and this time think about adult people, when you do.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they can seem to be flat, passionless, cold and emotionless.
So that covers all children not covered by blissful, happy, delightful, sweet, even-tempered, peaceful, calm, serene, patient, quiet and self-effasive then.
Ah, but they ARE blissful and happy, but CAN SEEM TO BE flat, passionless... both at the same time.
This actually fits me pretty well. I seem to have two different personalities. When I'm not feeling good, when I'm upset, when I'm worried, afraid, uncomfortable, I become "flat, passionless, cold and emotionless". A lot of Aspies have been described thusly. But when I am feeling good, I'm calm and happy, not afraid, not in an emotional turmoil, comfortable, I am totally different. And this is also true when it comes to other Aspies, as can be testified by the people closest to us, our spouses, friends, family... Me the way my family knows me is totally different than me as different official people, like doctors, administrators and case handlers "know" me.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they are often very passive and have difficulty standing up for themselves and they often neglect their own needs for another.
All babies have difficulty standing up for themselves. And if they can't stand yet how can they be altruistic?
*sigh* Again, review your response in the light of that these characteristics apply to babies ONLY when specifically mentioned, like in "they are... ...babies", "already as babies".
Also, English is not my first language, but I have the impression that "standing up for oneself" means something very different than "standing up".
How can dependent people be altruistic? Perhaps because one has nothing to do with the other.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they are very charismatic, magnetic and likable people - they draw people to them, and it is as if they were shining of inner light. Babies smile at them and animals come to them.
- they relate to adults better unless there are children of the same vibration around, but they don't respect authority. They see all the people as equals.
BARNUM STATEMENTS
Nope.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they have a strong need of space, solitude, balance, rejuvenation and silence. They do not live well in groups and as strong individuals, don't co-operate well
All babies sleep. This covers the ones who aren't such great leaders; don't do well in groups.
Again, not about babies.
Besides, nowhere does it say these people are GREAT leaders. Just that they are "natural born leaders". Also, being a strong individual is not opposite to being a leader.
"Living well in groups" is not synonymous to "doing well in groups".
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they will withdraw and disconnect from society in order to protect themselves, if they feel traumatized, see or feel other being traumatized, or when life gets too intense
- they usually avoid crowded places and parties
Babies hide from things that scare them. This one also is the opposite counterpart to the ones on strength.
Not about babies.
So you are saying that strong individuals with strong will won't avoid crowded places and parties, don't try to protect themselves by withdrawing and disconnecting? Are you saying that introvert people cannot be strong individuals with strong will, and that Aspies, with their need of solitude, cannot be strong individuals?
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they may have great difficulty understanding and interacting, but they will always know who they are
- they are connected and communicative
This is getting lazy, 2 contrasting points next to one another?
"having difficulties in understanding and interacting" is not contrasting to "being connected and communicative".
I am very communicative person who feels connected, but there are still moments when I don't understand NTs at all, and not only NTs. Also, there are situations when I find it hard to interact, how ever communicative and social being I am.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they have strong will and conviction, and they are determined when focused
- they can throw powerful tantrums and be extremely manipulative, especially if they are limited
- an unbalanced Crystal can become volatile, aggressive, even violent
These smooth over the opposites of previous points, quietness, etc.
So you have never experienced an Asperger's meltdown? Good for you. Most people who know me would describe me as calm, even-tempered and quiet, but when I'm having a meltdown, I'm none of those things.
Also, having a strong will and conviction is not connected to being quiet, blissful, happy, delightful, sweet, even-tempered, peaceful, calm, serene, patient, quiet, self-effasive, kind, caring, loving, understanding, gentle, compassionate, innocent, guileless and pure.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they are fearless and might experiment with dangerous activities, like jumping off a window or cliff, just to know what it feels like
- they are curious and like to explore
- they are filled with wonder. They have a million questions and various innovative ways of doing things
- they love nature, plants, animals and minerals. They are very comfortable with these things. They show special interest to rocks, crystals and stones and like to play with these. They NEED the daily communication with nature, Mother Earth, Gaia.
They will mysteriously forget to voice this need when they acquire speech.
Not about babies. So this doesn't describe you. Fine. It describes me.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they will communicate with animals, rocks, crystals, plants and trees. They can see the nature spirits and will often commune with them.
- they spontaneously hug and care for people in need, nurture younger children and animals, and try to help and heal both humans and animals that are in distress. They have a remarkable way of connecting with other living beings.
- they have high IQ - average is around 130
Test and see.
Communicating with animals, rocks, crystals bla bla bla cannot obviosly be tested, but the rest - not all children want to rescue living beings in need. Not all kids bring a wounded grasshopper in and want their parents to help heal it. So - just see who did that as a child, and who didn't.
Not all people want to help people who are in distress. Most doctors, nurses, medics etc. chose the profession because they want to help and heal people.
IQ is easy to test, but it doesn't mean anything.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they are multitalented – as a result, subjects in school can be viewed as boring and senseless – displays desire to stay focused on the gifted area in their life.
- they love learning about science and are interested in various topics. They will learn as much as they can on a specific topic and then talk about it.
- they have high physical intelligence, an amazing sense of balance and like to climb
- they have a vivid imagination
- they are highly creative, original and innovative
- they are artistic and musical
- they seem to have an inherent knowledge of art, language and spirituality, possessing an impressive wealth of wisdom
- they are right brain oriented
This pop psychology bs means creative, which we've already covered.
Have we? Where?
Not all people are creative, not all creative people are multitalented or love learning, or are interested in many things, or have high physical intelligence (which is not pop psychology bs, unless you consider all psychology pop psychology bs.) etc. etc.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they are also quite philosophical and spiritually gifted and highly intuitive
- they are very good at living in the moment and "flow"
- they are good at "co-creation" and "manifesting"
Co-creation is a business term, manifesting means wishing for what you want in a mystical fashion. Just no.
"Business term"?
Being philosophical - high intrapersonal intelligence
being spiritually gifted - high existential intelligence
being highly intuitive - being aware of what happens around one and paying attention, making connections, associations, drawing right conclusions
living in the moment and "flow" - not worrying about tomorrow nor dwelling in yesterday (doesn't usually apply on Aspies, who are known to obsessively compulsively dwell and worry)
being good at "co-creation" and "manifesting" - actually doing something to reach one's goals.
Are you really telling me that you are unable to translate the New Age psychobabble to understandable language?
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
- they create their world, and often live in a world of their own
- they have a unique world and vision.
- they are very sensitive to the environment, can be oversensitive, even allergic
- they are sensitive to vaccines, chemicals & pesticides
- they sense the energy fields, ley lines, electrical currents and magnetic radiation, solar and lunar waves, cosmic waves, and energies from the galactic centre. (solar flares, full moon, astrological influences...), dense energies, environmental stimulations
- there might be electric disturbance around them. Watches usually stop and so on.
- they are empathethic, and they mirror their environment, pick up its energy and moods. This is also why they are receptive to energy healing and can be helped by feng shui and other such methods of dealing with the energy flow and electromagnetic frequencies
Now you ave a reason to buy our Feng Shui book!
So you don't create your own world and never feel like you are born on wrong planet? Good for you.
No-one has ever told you you live in your own fantasy world and need to come down to the real world? Good for you.
You don't feel your world view is very different from the neuronormal world view? Good for you.
You are not hypersensitive? Good for you.
You don't have allergies? Good for you.
You don't feel the changes in atmosphere, you don't feel oddly uncomfortable in certain places, you are not influenced by such things like electromagnetic radiation or atmospheric pressure, people experiencing ghosts and alien abduction are just crazy and seeking attention, and it has nothing to do with totally normal, physical bodily reactions like sleep paralysis? Good for you.
You can wear a watch without it stopping all the time. Good for you.
You are not empathethic and don't mirror your environment. Good for you.
I have always counted these as quite normal physical instances with a rational explanation, and something that is quite common for NDs, but thanks to you I now know Feng Shui "works". I'm going to decorate my whole apartment anew.
Asmodeus wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
... are capable of manipulating energy and therefore perform "magic"
Materia? If not one crystal child can perform this (summon in FF7), your theory is forfeit.
My theory is that "Crystal Child" is the "New Age" name to Aspies.
Ketutar wrote:
I actually recognize me in much of this, and what I recognize myself in happens to be what I recognize myself in the descriptions on Asperger's... I wonder if "Crystal Child" is the "New Age" name to Aspies?
Asmodeus wrote:
there's a big chunk I missed but it's more of the same, given more time I could place the points in couplets and triplets that contradict one another directly merely by rearranging the order. This whole thing is a Barnum statement, according to it all recently born children are crystal children.
Firsly, no.
Secondly, please, do "place the points in couplets and triplets that contradict one another directly merely by rearranging the order".
Thirdly, I wish you'd answer my question:
Ketutar wrote:
I want you to go through the list and note if there is anything you can recognize yourself. There should be.
Then I want you to classify the points to "New Age BS" - like psychic abilities, mind-reading and communicating with your mother before you were born, communicating with trees and stones and being born to save the humanity - and the non-NABS - like needing a lot of solitude, turning inwards when bullied, preferring nature to people and so on - and see how much of the non-NABS you actually recognize in yourself.
If you can recognize yourself in 3/4 of the non-NABS, then the theory that New Agers call Aspies "Crystal Children" is plausible."
09 Jun 2012, 3:07 pm
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