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Ketutar
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10 Dec 2013, 7:08 am

hurtloam wrote:
I was on another forum and the conversation turned to autism and people started talking about crystal and indigo children and it annoyed me like crazy."


Why?

hurtloam wrote:
Seems to me this is wishful thinking on behalf of parents of special needs kids wanting to make them somehow really special, distinct. It's like not accepting your child needs help.


Last night there was quite a ruckus in Facebook "Asperger's in Adults" group because one of these parents who thought their child was a "special need" child, presented a couple of conspiracy theories (vaccinations, medicine corporations, state, bla bla bla), and claimed her son was "cured", so there's hope for all of us.

I brought up this subject here, not to claim Aspies are "crystal children", but to ask your opinion on whether it might be easier to explain the issue to the people who refuse to acknowledge that their child actually needs help.

As I said
Ketutar wrote:
Because we do have New Agers around, and if they are stopping their Aspie kids from getting proper care, education and medication, what ever might help them, because that's a "wrong diagnose", then I think they are violating their children's civil rights and making it more difficult for all the other Aspies to get proper help, and that is not something any of us should approve of or feel indifferent about.

Also, they might have noticed something about Aspies the rest of the world hasn't noticed, because you notice different things if you think your child is "neurologically disabled", have a "disease" or needs "special attention" than if you think your child is "the next step in human evolution".



Ketutar
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10 Dec 2013, 7:18 am

Melpomene wrote:
allowing parents of perfectly ordinary but unruly children to let their offspring roam free because they are "special".

Melpomene wrote:
Sometimes, parents need to face up to the fact that their idealised dream baby isn't quite as special or talented as they wanted him or her to be. Labelling your plain-as-porridge child as a Crystal Child or an Indigo Child is a classic example of relieving cognitive dissonance


I wouldn't call Aspie kids "perfectly ordinary but unruly" or "plain-as-porridge".

I assume you would agree with me when I say it takes a special sort of a parent to think their child is "a Crystal Child".
I assume that these parents like their child very much and would want what is best for him/her.
I assume that they also vehemently resist any attempt to diagnose their children as Aspies.

Knowing all this, you'd rather insist there is nothing such as "crystal children" and their children are perfectly ordinary plain-as-porridge, and they need to stop fidgeting with pseudoscience,
than accept that these people need to use a different name of the condition, but by allowing this, you'll be able to get correct help for the child?



Ketutar
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10 Dec 2013, 7:47 am

Fnord wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
... I want you to classify the points to "New Age BS" - like psychic abilities, mind-reading and communicating with your mother before you were born, communicating with trees and stones and being born to save the humanity...


... for which there is no valid material evidence - none of these things can be demonstrated.


yes, New Age BS.

Fnord wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
In my mind any piece of data is valuable. Sometimes the blind hen does find a kernel. Sometimes people guess right. If we are to dismiss and discredit information simply because of the source, without even testing it, we are being stupid.


Exactly. So how about setting up stringent testing protocols that will reliably and repeatedly demonstrate that "New Age BS" is actually valid?


Why would anyone do that? I am not suggesting testing people's ability to levitate, but testing New Age parents' notions of their Aspie-children. They might have noticed something others haven't.

Fnord wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
... the idea that your child is an "advanced being" and "was born to save humanity" sounds good to me :-D Aren't we all?


No. Which is more advanced: the person who, when confronted with a stressful situation, will curl up into a ball and rock for hours on end, or the person who confronts the stressful situation and overcomes it?


I wouldn't know. And neither would you. There are different areas in life, and different situations, and what one person is well adjusted to deal with, another isn't. Doesn't make one better than the other, or more generally advanced. The person who confronts the stressful situation and overcomes it, might not be able to handle a different situation, which the stress-intolerant person has no problems with dealing with.

Fnord wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
Children are .. just like adults ...


WRONG! If it were so, then children would be able to care for themselves, delay gratification, plan for the future, and discern when they are being taken advantage of.


Not all adults can do that.
The sentence was "Children have feelings, intelligence and morals, they are just like adults, except they are small and inexperienced."

Fnord wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
In my mind you SHOULD be treating a child with the same respect and consideration you treat adults...

... when a 5-year old can demonstrate adult-like mentation, or at least act responsibly, then maybe they can be treated in an adult-like manner ... maybe ...


Most adults don't act responsibly. But you probably treat other adults differently, because they are not acting as responsible adults or are addicted to this or that, or are naïve, or cannot take care of themselves due to physical or mental handicap, or for what ever reason.

Fnord wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
Also, how would you know if you child IS born to "save humanity" or not?


No person is born to be anything. There is no fixed "destiny" or "fate" other than an eventual death.


That's what you believe. Some people believe differently.

Fnord wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
Perhaps he/she grows up to become a doctor who finds the cure to common flu or something. Or an engineer, who invents something great, or a musician, who composes a song that lifts people up and helps them struggle with everyday life? Who knows?


Pure speculation. No one can foretell the future - one can speculate, and events may coincidentally or intentionally work out that way - but there is no way to determine what will happen with absolute certainty.


Of course it's pure speculation.

Fnord wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
We are all full of potential...

The only thing you've said that makes sense so far.


I'd say the only thing you understand.

Fnord wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
I am not talking about your kid being the next Messiah or so, but on the other hand, if you believe in THAT BS, why couldn't YOUR kid be the Next Coming? Do you believe Mary disciplined Jesus much?


Do you believe that Jesus actually existed as He was depicted in the Bible?


No. I believe there never was a Jesus as depicted in the Bible, or more precisely, "Jesus" is a fictional character composed of myths mixed with some actual events and real people. But I said "IF you believe THAT BS..." If not, then the following question is irrelevant.



Ketutar
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10 Dec 2013, 8:07 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Im rather opened minded to unorthodox ideas, but even Shirely McLaine would consider this to be balderdash.

I don't know anything about what Shirley Maclaine would consider this to be, and I don't care, either.

naturalplastic wrote:
Its not tethered to any kind of reality whatsoever.


Actually it is. There are people out there who believe it. That's the reality.

naturalplastic wrote:
Okay: so babies are being born now with a certain set of characteristics.
Many happened to be autistic/aspie traits.
And you give an interminably long laundry list of traits.


It's not interminably long. The list has an end.

naturalplastic wrote:
First of all: when exactly is "now"?
What date did this current model of babies start coming off the assembly line?


According to the person who I assume invented the idea, this model started coming off the assembly line in the end of 1990's.

naturalplastic wrote:
Is this every baby born "now". Or just a certain percentage?


Not every baby born "now", just some. They don't give any percentage.

naturalplastic wrote:
Are you talking about an upspike in the numbers of a type of kid that has always existed?
Or are you talking about a new kind of child that never existed before- but is still a minority of children born today?
In other words: what the H are you talking about?


They say this kind of children didn't exist earlier, that it's the "next phase of spiritual evolution" or some other such thing. H is probably a correct term.

naturalplastic wrote:
Many of us have many of the traits- myself included- but thats because some (including me) are aspies. And there are many traits we dont have. The list is so damned long anyone can find something that fits them.


It's not a question of "something", but "most things". I said 3/4 of the non-NABS (New Age BS).

naturalplastic wrote:
Also- I assume that detroit came out with this new kind of baby sometime after 2000- many of us who have these chrystal traits were born long before the start of this century- so we can't be chrystal babies. So you're defining the category by traits that people outside the category have in abundance. So what use is it as a category?


Detroit?

As far as I know, there are no Crystal Children. As far as I know, this is a completely invented term, for reasons I don't know and don't care either, but I have already answered to the question of what use it is as a category. To help in communicating with people who do believe this stuff.

naturalplastic wrote:
On top of that many of these traits are for things like "seeing auras".
Thats like saying " the unicorns must have been killed off by the space aliens"- linking one unknown with another unknown.


Which is why I said to separate things to "New Age BS" and "non-NABS."

naturalplastic wrote:
In short:you might try speaking in terms that people outside of Marin County California can understand!


I am outside Marin County California. So much so that I don't even understand the reference.



Ketutar
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10 Dec 2013, 8:16 am

"From Changelings to Crystal Children: An Examination of ‘New Age’ Ideas About Autism" by Mitzi Waltz
Journal of Religion, Disability & Health, Volume 13, Issue 2, 2009

"‘New Age’ belief systems are relatively common, including amongst adherents of traditional religions. This article examines common New Age ideas about autism spectrum disorders. These beliefs are varied, but may include notions of karma, reincarnation, spirit or extraterrestrial possession, and telepathy, as well as recourse to specific types of therapies (notably, humanistic counseling and biomedical interventions, including bodywork, “detoxification” and special diets). It also considers the impact these may have on parents of children with autism spectrum disorders (ASD), on people with autism themselves, and on practitioners who may encounter them in the course of their work."

Dr. Mitzi Waltz is a Senior Lecturer in Autism at the Autism Centre of Sheffield Hallam University in the UK. She is best known for her research in disability studies and particularly on the history of ideas about autism, summarised in the book Autism: A Social and Medical History (Palgrave Macmillan, 2013) and in several academic journal articles.
Previously she was a Lecturer in Autism Studies at the Autism Centre for Education and Research (ACER), University of Birmingham and a Senior Lecturer in Media and Cultural Studies at the University of Sunderland.
Dr Waltz has contributed to many key pieces of autism research and resources, including the Department of Children Schools and Families' Inclusion Development Programmes on working with children and young people with autism. She has written ten books, including three on the autism spectrum and five on other neuropsychiatric conditions.
Wikipedia: Mitzi Waltz



Ketutar
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10 Dec 2013, 8:20 am

slave wrote:
@OP

Ummm........prove it.
Unless and until you do I will regard any such notion as Cassowary s##t.


I assume this is meant for me.

Prove what?



Ketutar
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10 Dec 2013, 8:25 am

Vigilans wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
What are Crystal Children?


A fictional and extremely lame, facepalm worthy concept


Like most other concepts. Now that that has been abundantly stated, can we get on with the issue itself? Or did you get lost, because your face was covered with your palms, and never noticed the issue?



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10 Dec 2013, 8:28 am

Lecks wrote:
Ketutar wrote:
Lecks wrote:
Auras...?


LOL yes :-)6
Some people believe that people sort of radiate energy and some people can see or sense this energy. It could also be called halo.

Hmm...
Image

Epic Bad Assery!


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10 Dec 2013, 8:34 am

Although I am religious, this crystal children stuff sounds like a good way to mess up. I mean, if God or Jesus just randomly gave out telepathy and wolverine claws to autistic kids, that would be cool, but we are autistic not eccentric super humans.


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