Does anyone feel stuck in a primitive society...

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and long for a Utopian world?

No. I find that kind of thinking to be wasteful and self-destructive.

I don't. More like an impetus to improve.

I don't find a "utopian world" attractive or interesting, so it's not really an improvement from my perspective.

Also, I disagree that utopia is a progression from primitive. It's not clear that the world is a better place now than it was in primitive times or that the world will be a better place when now is considered primitive.

I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word "utopia".

From Wikipedia:
A utopia is a community or society possessing highly desirable or perfect qualities.

By definition, then, a utopia is attractive, and a progression from primitive times. It is also very clear that the world is better now than it was in primitive times.

Those in power often have a stake in keeping those they rule ignorant and primitive, to suppress the competition. There certainly seem to be a lot of societal pressures which encourage ignorance. There is a lot about civics, and the machinations of the way the political game is played, that people really ought to know, so they don't fall victim to spin and demagoguery. I feel that people who have 0 understanding of this are a threat to me personally; would be champions, and martyrs for causes that they don't understand.

Perfection is something that it is destructive to expect, I think, since it is highly subjective. Idealism is necessary for any decent society.

Last edited by Stannis on 10 Feb 2014, 7:25 pm, edited 14 times in total.

Not interested in your red herring.

I feel like we are in such a technologically advanced society that it's difficult to keep track of the emerging changes. But people don't change so it depends what aspect of society we are talking about. I wouldn't expect any better of people so it's hard to imagine it.

Utopia envisages a cohesive society that can provide people with everything they need in an equal manner - thereby eliminating most of the social problems that exist in a society such as ours. But it's most impractical and unsustainable. Since a cohesive state in society does not necessarily mean a happy one, but a stable one. So what is it that is really important in a society for humans? Stability or happiness? Control or freedom? Because isn't there something inherent in all human beings that makes us long for something else - daydreams of societal changes and so forth?

Even the primative (pre historic) societies were better in ways than the current state capitalist dystopia we live in. Bushmen are more happy than us. People in the future (if there will be one) are going to look back at this in contempt.

Is one person's Utopia another person's Dystopia?

We are living in a golden age compared to most points in history. Corruption will always exist as long as human ambition does, and the world will never be perfect, but at least we are not living as serfs and nobles (which could happen again.. who knows).
I hate the obscenely wealthy as much as the next, but compared to many parts of the world the average 1st worlder is the obscenely rich.
In America 1 bowl of rice feeds one, whereas in parts of the world it feeds five.
In parts of the world people are manufacturing carcinogenic food products from waste because it is cheaper, scavenging to make it day to day, we are extremely privileged and have it easy.

Technologically the present is pretty much always a golden age. Socially and ecologically we have gone backwards. We were better off both socially and ecologically for the majority of our time (paleolithic) on this planet. Fuedaulism and aristocracy are hairs on the timeline.

Ok fair enough, I don't know much about the time before civilization, which is the majority of humanity's existence, but I imagine in those times people had to eke out a living day by day, and lifespans weren't very long due to the harsh environment. There was probably tribal warfare over territory and such, and I'm sure in the tribe there was a social hierarchy where people were stepped on.
These days we have social mobility, law enforcement, a massive infrastructure enabling feeding and luxury items for almost everyone in our society.
I think our society is and always has been colored by human nature, and absolute fairness is a pipe dream. It will always be survival of the fittest so people will look out primarily for themselves and their family/group/tribe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter-ga ... _structure

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band_society

Wikipedia is a good start, you can read up some books on the Bushmen (if you want to).

Last edited by RushKing on 10 Feb 2014, 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i live in a utopian world that i create for myself..through the available freedoms in this country..

But and a big but..

IS i can do that as i am financially independent..and am no slave of another person..to do what they'll have
me do to make a living...

Some folks find jobs that still allow this freedom in utopian living..

i actually did for almost two decades..a job where even where i had a boss..

i still had full range of freedoms..to express myself..and just be myself...

That's utopia to me..

Another thing..is i keep my standards low..

Utopia mostly is a state of mind to me...

Otherwise..i'm not sure how it could exist anywhere in real life....

AS the mind (one without personal discipline and control) can be the greatest predator against happiness in anyone's life....

It can be an evil beast..

or best friend..

the mind that is...

a dreamer of heaven..

or a nightmare
of
hell..

i choose heaven..
but it's work to get
and stay tHere
always
now..
and while we can
share our experiences..
and ways to arrive in a Utopian bliss..

everyone
must
find
their
own
way..
in my opinion2....