Might is Right or The Survival of the Fittest

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Tollorin
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05 Jun 2014, 10:42 pm

hyena wrote:
If I recall correctly Athens was only a village when Greece got independence in the early 19th century. The decision to make Athens a large city and the capital is very recent and long detached from ancient history. It was the Spartans who took control of Athens not the other way around. If they wanted to they could have exterminated them. Athens made a contribution under the command of others.

Sparta only dominated Athens for thirteen months, before been driven out by the general Thrasybulus.



hyena
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05 Jun 2014, 11:38 pm

It only takes a day for extermination and enslavement if the conqueror wishes it. It is interesting that for all their might the Spartans proved themselves gentler than the Athenians. Around the same time, an Island state was not submitting to Athens so Athens massacred them after beating them. According to a book I read, Athens was generally seen as bully and Sparta as a liberator of Hellenism.

Tollorin wrote:
Sparta only dominated Athens for thirteen months, before been driven out by the general Thrasybulus.



goldfish21
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06 Jun 2014, 1:12 am

Janissy wrote:
Clearly this guy is no advocate of disability rights, or probably of healthcare of any sort (if your immune system can't kill it- then it should rightfully kill you).

However, permanent conflict/war is not necessary to achieve his perfect society. The total lack of all healthcare would do it peacefully. People survive their injuries/illness by the strength of their own bodies or they don't.

Given that this was written at the end of the 1800's, there is a good possibility that this.....author.....died of tuberculosis. It sure woulod have served him right- let the world go to those with stronger immune systems.

I tried googling him but apparently he hid well behind his pseudonym (coward!) and there was only speculation as to who he might be. It might have been this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_desmond

...who died of a stroke after a long life of being a person I wouldn't want to be around. Should have been tuberculosis.


Nope, not at all an advocate of disability rights. Although, he doesn't specifically write about doing harm to the disabled. He merely suggests if people can't hack it, they ought to lose/starve/die off etc vs. win/thrive. He also advocates defending your own family, so, if someone in your family is disabled and you have the Might to be able to provide for them/defend them etc - go right ahead.

He's not anti-healthcare, but likely anti-socialized medicine. Basically, if you can get the money to pay for treatment, or are strong/smart enough to learn & do yourself, then you ought to be healed and become stronger. If you can't for whatever reason, or you lack the will or any ability required, then you don't get to be healed and natural selection will take you out of the gene pool.


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goldfish21
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06 Jun 2014, 1:15 am

The_Walrus wrote:
Not only is this so immoral that I am concerned that anyone would even consider it, but it's utterly stupid because it supposes "better" is actually a thing.

There is no such thing as "objective" fitness in all situations, only subjective fitness for the environment you exist in.


I know an undiagnosed as pie that hates the word better. He says there is no better, only different. I disagree. Some tools are better for some jobs, some smells smell better, some people look better, being rich is better than being poor etc. IMO, better is actually a thing. Not so sure I agree with racial superiority, but there are definitely better people out there than others, & thus why the best man wins.

Subjective fitness for the environment you exist in at the present moment IS objective fitness in all situations. If you're better/stronger/smarter/bigger/faster etc and so forth, then you can conquer every moment and reap the rewards of winning.

edit:

One of the things the author makes crystal clear with his explanations is that there is no such thing as equality among men, never has been, never will be. It's interesting that we live in such times where so many among the masses are all about equality (myself included) yet we live in the times of the greatest wealth disparity in human history.. and the reason is that people are not equal, never have been, and never will be. Either you man up & conquer everything you set out to (not necessarily doing any harm or wrong.) or you accept your fate as dictated by others.


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Stannis
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06 Jun 2014, 2:00 am

goldfish21 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Not only is this so immoral that I am concerned that anyone would even consider it, but it's utterly stupid because it supposes "better" is actually a thing.

There is no such thing as "objective" fitness in all situations, only subjective fitness for the environment you exist in.


I know an undiagnosed as pie that hates the word better. He says there is no better, only different. I disagree. Some tools are better for some jobs, some smells smell better, some people look better, being rich is better than being poor etc. IMO, better is actually a thing. Not so sure I agree with racial superiority, but there are definitely better people out there than others, & thus why the best man wins.

Subjective fitness for the environment you exist in at the present moment IS objective fitness in all situations. If you're better/stronger/smarter/bigger/faster etc and so forth, then you can conquer every moment and reap the rewards of winning.

edit:

One of the things the author makes crystal clear with his explanations is that there is no such thing as equality among men, never has been, never will be. It's interesting that we live in such times where so many among the masses are all about equality (myself included) yet we live in the times of the greatest wealth disparity in human history.. and the reason is that people are not equal, never have been, and never will be. Either you man up & conquer everything you set out to (not necessarily doing any harm or wrong.) or you accept your fate as dictated by others.


Not so sure you agree, huh?

Jesus H Christ 8O Go out and buy a self help book, join a boxing gym, or get yourself laid if you want to acquire self confidence. You're taking seriously, a guy who would have wanted to gas people like us! I'm not sure why achieving your goals requires all of this ideology anyway.

Quote:
yet we live in the times of the greatest wealth disparity in human history.. and the reason is that people are not equal, never have been, and never will be.


Extreme wealth disparity is not a result of the rich being innately superior. It's a state of affairs that arose mainly from Cronyism, and the systematic dumbing down and brainwashing of the general public so that they were unable to adequately press their class interests, or keep corruption in check.



Last edited by Stannis on 06 Jun 2014, 3:14 am, edited 5 times in total.

drh1138
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06 Jun 2014, 2:47 am

Stannis wrote:
Jesus H Christ 8O Go out and buy a self help book, join a boxing gym, or get yourself laid if you want to acquire self confidence. You're taking seriously, a guy who would have wanted to gas people like us!


This is what I ultimately don't get about the presumably autistic eugenicists here. Were their twisted moral framework to come about, they would be among the first to be rounded up, shipped to the camps (and trust me, there will be camps, when you give people this moral leeway to do whatever they want to others who are superficially unlike themselves) and administered their dose of Zyklon B.

Image

Militarists, eugenicists, Social Darwinists: this is where your ideology leads.



GGPViper
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06 Jun 2014, 3:24 am

goldfish21 wrote:
I know an undiagnosed as pie that hates the word better. He says there is no better, only different. I disagree. Some tools are better for some jobs, some smells smell better, some people look better, being rich is better than being poor etc. IMO, better is actually a thing. Not so sure I agree with racial superiority, but there are definitely better people out there than others, & thus why the best man wins.

The bolded part - and several statements in the thread - has now left me wondering if the purpose of this thread was to fly racial supremacy propaganda in under the radar or simply to troll...

Fortunately, either of those are sufficient to warrant a thread lock.