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Stannis
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10 Jun 2014, 2:19 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
thinkinginpictures, you went on an athiest foum to argue for the existence of God? Bad idea ... that would be like going on an anti-abortion forum to argue for infanticide. Of course they will be hostile. The response you quoted was quite rude though. Frankly I wouldn't bother with the site.


Why can't people accept diversity?


When you ignore logic when making philosophical arguments, it can be very annoying. It can also feel somewhat threatening to people who perceive it as an attack on enlightenment values. This might be why they were rude to you. Notice that they did not ban you, though. Try posting as an atheist on a christian forum and see how long you last.



Kurgan
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11 Jun 2014, 1:54 pm

Stannis wrote:
Do you listen to shock jocks often? It certainly appears so :wink:


No need to. :) The extreme press freedom in Norway (I could write what I want about a given politician, and she/he would just have to accept it), means that comedians, tabloids, and all that are extremely politically biased.

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Anyway, what the hell is organised atheism :? Please provide examples.


Organized atheism are organizations that are only about atheism. Do we have organizations for people who do not have a favourite soccer team, for people who do not have hobbies, or organizations for people who do not vote during the elections?


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Kurgan
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11 Jun 2014, 1:57 pm

TheGoggles wrote:
A dominant male lion will kill all of the cubs that it wasn't responsible for making.


This is not always the case. The very same behaviour has also been observed in humans; the stepfather is much more likely to harm the child than the biological father, and you'll also frequently see stepmothers who are bitter towards children that are not hers.

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They might have a pack structure, but its rules are entirely dedicated to promoting the reproduction of the strongest genetic line.


This is also the case for humans. Men like hourglass shaped women because they're the most fertile.


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SoMissunderstood
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12 Jun 2014, 6:43 am

I don't know how appropriate it is to mention and criticise another forum here on WP and up until now, I have refrained from doing so myself, lest administration comes down on me like a ton of bricks (I have had too many bad experiences on other fora to know that this is something you don't do, and it's usually against the rules).

Having said that, the last forum I was evicted from was under similar circumstances, but it was a Religious Forum run by Atheists! What a conundrum!! I was damned if I did, and damned if I did not, so I did it anyway. lol

I don't know what I said or did to piss them off really, but it was obvious right from the word 'go' that I was neither liked nor appreciated there...at least, not by the staff anyway.

It was one of those cases where they didn't need to believe in god...they were all 'gods' themselves because they ran an internet forum which also gave them the right to play with people's online lives and opinions and form their little 'review panels' about your account's continued status...using such nebulous terms as 'too confrontational', 'too edgy', 'too emotional', 'too negative'...

Why don't people just come right out and say what they mean? "We hate your guts so just f*** off before we ban you" and not "We are considering your stay here and need some time to 'review your account'...meanwhile, it will have 'restricted' status so you can only talk to US!'

*three months down the track and it STILL has 'restricted status' - nothing has changed and nothing ever will!

What bastards!

I was bitter and full of hatred for a month and wanted revenge on that site...then I thought, as I always do; 'their loss, I am WAY better than those people there'.

And so, now Wrong Planet has the benefit of my knowledge and experience instead.

It's a lot better here than there, so you are in the right place now and can put all that crap behind you...the internet shows off the worst in humanity (if it wasn't already bad enough).

I wish you all the best.



Last edited by SoMissunderstood on 12 Jun 2014, 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

DentArthurDent
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12 Jun 2014, 6:51 am

Stannis wrote:
Try posting as an atheist on a christian forum and see how long you last.


So true, been there :D

Thinking pictures I checked out that site, and your post, stop being so awfully sensitive, there was only one rude response and they answered your question, the rest were either just dismissive of your idea or they tried to answer it. Responding with "Why are you people so cruel towards me?" is not going to get much sympathy, as another poster says in the thread in response to your cry for mercy ".......Although it appears to me the people around here have tried to explain things like this multiple times to you and likely gotten tired of it."

A little less disingenuousness on your behalf might be in order


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Jono
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12 Jun 2014, 8:26 am

TheGoggles wrote:
You seem to be implying that there is some kind of ethical/moral code that can be expressed as a scientific law, which is not the case. In fact, it's basically the opposite. Celestial bodies don't care one way or another what they slam into or how long they take to orbit a star. Lions don't consider the feelings of a gazelle before killing and eating it. Only humans are capable of that level of self-awareness, and the decisions we make are based on the kind of society we want to build.


How often do we think about the feelings of the cow that was slaughtered in an abattoir whenever we eat that hamburger at MacDonald's? The truth is, animals do have empathy and we can see the evolution and origins of morality in the behaviour of animals. However, any comparison that you can make about predators having empathy for the prey that they kill doesn't, simply because we generally don't have empathy or even think about the animals that we kill as food either. On the other hand, any comparison between a predator killing it's prey for food and a human being murdering another human is not a valid comparison and using that to argue that only humans have morality is actually a logical fallacy, it's called a false analogy.



Jono
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12 Jun 2014, 8:31 am

TheGoggles wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
TheGoggles wrote:
You seem to be implying that there is some kind of ethical/moral code that can be expressed as a scientific law, which is not the case. In fact, it's basically the opposite. Celestial bodies don't care one way or another what they slam into or how long they take to orbit a star. Lions don't consider the feelings of a gazelle before killing and eating it. Only humans are capable of that level of self-awareness, and the decisions we make are based on the kind of society we want to build.


A lion typically only kills what it needs to kill, and if you're not part of it's regular diet, it will usually warn you before attacking. A lion can't tell the difference between a photographer or an ape waiting for the right oportunity to kill and eat one of it's cubs.

Moreover, lions are capable of altruism, there are numerous examples of lion mothers risking their life to save their cubs, and they have a complex social order.


A dominant male lion will kill all of the cubs that it wasn't responsible for making. They might have a pack structure, but its rules are entirely dedicated to promoting the reproduction of the strongest genetic line. Humans can choose to reject their biological imperatives, though they often end up following them without realizing it.


Yes, so do humans, or at least they have for most of human history. Should I point out how common infanticide has been throughout human history? In fact, it was actually a legal form of population control in many ancient civilisations. It's just been replaced by a legal right to abortion in modern culture.



Jijifranko
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12 Jun 2014, 9:47 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
thinkinginpictures, you went on an athiest foum to argue for the existence of God? Bad idea ... that would be like going on an anti-abortion forum to argue for infanticide. Of course they will be hostile. The response you quoted was quite rude though. Frankly I wouldn't bother with the site.


Why can't people accept diversity?


So, are you a theist? It's not very clear to me.



Jono
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12 Jun 2014, 10:03 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
thinkinginpictures, you went on an athiest foum to argue for the existence of God? Bad idea ... that would be like going on an anti-abortion forum to argue for infanticide. Of course they will be hostile. The response you quoted was quite rude though. Frankly I wouldn't bother with the site.


Why can't people accept diversity?


If you are a theist then I really don't understand the point of posting on an atheist forum. That said, it did really seem to me that you were arguing for the existence of God in that thread. I did read through it.



Jijifranko
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12 Jun 2014, 11:54 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
thinkinginpictures, you went on an athiest foum to argue for the existence of God? Bad idea ... that would be like going on an anti-abortion forum to argue for infanticide. Of course they will be hostile. The response you quoted was quite rude though. Frankly I wouldn't bother with the site.


Why can't people accept diversity?


Looking through the threads you've created, I don't think the problem is merely that they can't accept diversity. Perhaps, for one, you shouldn't start a thread insulting the scientific community (by suggesting that they're money-grubbing and lazy) simply because, in your eyes, they have to gall to disseminate their journals for a fee and the temerity to spend more time labouring within their specialist fields than in a subject that does not traditionally have a place in academia or scientific journalism: the paranormal. Why should logicians, mathematicians, physicists, chemists, geoscientists, astronomers and biologists have any concern for something that's irrelevant to their subject, let alone publish an article about it? I'm sure you know the paranormal does not have a long history in modern science, and I hope you appreciate that it'll require a huge paradigm shift for that to change. However, that does not mean that nobody is trying to study it in a scientific manner; the last time I checked, JSTOR has quite a few journals dedicated to folklore, and there are many articles that provide a sociological and anthropological study of paranormal events and beliefs. Sociology and anthropology are classed amongst the social sciences, if not the "traditional" sciences, so you can't rightfully claim that the paranormal studies are being ignored outright by the scientific and academic community.

Yes, the insults are crude and disrespectful and, certainly, it's crass that some of them should come from a staff member (though I saw that a few members did try to engage with you politely), but you could at least accord some respect to the scientific community you want your favoured subject to gain credence in.



Jijifranko
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12 Jun 2014, 12:02 pm

This is the thread I'm referring to: http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=2408.0