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naturalplastic
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02 Sep 2014, 11:57 am

Headline writers often make flubs. An American was found guilty of murder in the UK once. A newspaper advertised the news as "American Sentenced to Life in Scotland".

THAT would be "cruel and unusual"!

Okay.

Maybe not 'cruel', but certainly "unusual". There would be little precedent for it in UK jurisprudence.



TallyMan
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02 Sep 2014, 12:35 pm

^ :lol:


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ScrewyWabbit
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02 Sep 2014, 12:39 pm

pawelk1986 wrote:
I'm not American but i know that American constitution specifically prohibits "Cruel and unusual punishment" i know that "European Convention on Human Rights" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_C ... man_Rights

was partially based on provision against tortures of US Constitution and French Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen from 1789.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaratio ... he_Citizen


But i wonder what Cruel and unusual punishment means?

i can figure out what the cruel mean, e.g cutting sex offenders balls :D
tempting but definitely to cruel even for sex offender :D

But what the unusual part means?


It really comes down to a case-by-case basis and what passes muster in the US courts.

Generally "cruel" would be anything considered torturous or unusually mean - needles to the fingernails, suffocation, death by drowning, etc.

"Unusual" is more subjective since it implies you can't do anything not commonly done - but if for instance something is commonly done in other countries but not in the United States, is it "unusual"? If a punishment falls out of favor and is no longer commonly practiced in the United States but a state or the federal government seeks to revive its use, is it now prohibited because it has become uncommon and thus become 'unusual'?

Together the two concepts have been used by the courts to exclude certain punishments. A good example I can think of is that while capital punishment is allowed in some parts of the US, capital punishment against those who are mentally ret*d is generally considered to fall into the 'cruel and unusual' category and so is not allowed. On the other hand the courts have decided to allow things like solitary confinement and supermax prisons despite the prohibition against 'cruel and unusual' punishment.

Also, I'm no legal expert but while the Constitution says no "cruel AND unusual" punishment, in practice from what I know of it punishments that are "cruel OR unusual" is really what's prohibited. A punishment does not have to be both to be excluded.



visagrunt
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03 Sep 2014, 9:59 am

The simple answer is, "it means what the courts say it means."

The complex answer is also, "it means what the courts say it means."

There are 51 jurisdictions in the United States (50 states, and the federal jurisdiction) and each one has a corpus of criminal law. To a great extant the Supreme Court of the United States provides clarity and guidance on the meaning of constitutional text, but in every instant case it is up to individual courts to apply that clarity and guidance to the case at bar.

Like all language (especially constitutional language), the meaning changes over time. What was considered perfectly normal treatment of prisoners in the 19th century will no long pass constitutional muster in the 21st. And so, with each new circumstance that presents itself, there is an obligation on the courts to continue to refine the meaning.


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Kiprobalhato
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03 Sep 2014, 11:06 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Headline writers often make flubs. An American was found guilty of murder in the UK once. A newspaper advertised the news as "American Sentenced to Life in Scotland".

THAT would be "cruel and unusual"!

Okay.

Maybe not 'cruel', but certainly "unusual". There would be little precedent for it in UK jurisprudence.

oh my gosh...:lmao: :lmao:


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03 Sep 2014, 11:13 pm

Lock prisoners up in a cell with a 10 foot yellowjacket nest like this one! [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXZOKI6Uv9A[/youtube]


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Sweetleaf
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04 Sep 2014, 3:18 am

Punishment that is out of proportion to the crime that was committed is what I'd consider to be that.


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04 Sep 2014, 10:32 pm

My mom.

Seriously, don't test her temper!



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04 Sep 2014, 10:52 pm

This. 8O
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poena_cullei


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06 Sep 2014, 7:28 am

Working for Walmart.