Autism tackles Feminist censorship

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An equal rights movement for women implies women are not treated as equal (which, objectively, we aren't), so it means the same thing as the "radical notion" quote, and "not being feminist" would still equate to "not wanting women to have equality".
And there is absolutely something wrong with that, and any feminist would think so.



Yes, they would, because, as you imply, any real feminist wants equality. Not wishing to identify as a feminist because of the belief that feminists are about superiority just reinforces that belief, and not wishing to identify as a feminist because you believe women already have equality, or that sexism should not be focused on for some reason, undermines equality for women. Therefore any real feminist would have a problem with both of those.

You need to learn to distinguish. An equal rights movement for women is not loaded with the implication that anyone who is not part of that movement must therefore be against equal rights.

As I said before, there are many equality movements. Feminists may support equality (although, more and more seem to support superiority) but not all people who support equality have to be feminists. Imagine it as a venn diagram.



Okay, firstly a lot of feminists are about superiority these days, actions speak louder than words and that's what their actions are saying even if they continue to preach equality.

Many people, myself included, do not wish to identify as feminist because we want REAL equality and don't want to be associated with feminism. Therefore, we support other equality movements.

Feminists constantly try to foist feminism on women who do not wish to identify that way, with such rhetoric as "do you believe in equality for women? Congratulations! You are a feminist!" NO, I'm not. If feminism were really about equality they would respect people's right to identify as non-feminist.

Actually, this is not true.

What's actually going on is that a small minority of extremists are getting a pile of attention, and then everyone's assuming they represent feminism. And then the feminists who are really after equality get painted with the same brush by people who don't want to take a look at what they're actually saying.

It's like saying all the people who challenge ableism against autism are aspie supremacist types who think they're superior to NTs, or people who want LFAs to languish in institutions.



I know rape has gone down (as has pretty much all crime), and that's great, but it's still too high. Also, do you have any actual stats for false accusations, or just that newspaper article? Newspapers have no clue about crime statistics - to hear them talk, violent crime of all kinds is going up, when we know it's actually going down. So I don't think we should listen to them on the frequency of false accusations. (I also wonder how they decided it was false. I've heard so many stories of real victims who recanted or were not believed that I'm very hesitant to believe a claim of a 'false' accusation.)

By the way, the feminists who are really interested in equality have no problem with men calling themselves feminists (if they actually uphold feminist ideals, of course) and have no problem with men fighting for equality for men (as long as they actually want equality and not a return to patriarchy). Sexism hurts men too, and real feminists recognize that. The idea that women are weak and passive is one of the big reasons that male victims of female-perpetrated violence get silenced, and that's something real feminists take seriously.

Incidentally, we can control misogyny. We can't do it by snapping our fingers and making it change, but if feminists couldn't make people less misogynistic, we'd still be living in the 1950s. They did it by airing their viewpoints, challenging the existing norms, and ultimately convincing a critical mass of the population that they were right.

I don't want to be that one jerk, but honestly, I haven't had more than a few encounters with feminists that wasn't this. And I'm not talking tumblr radicals, I mean in real life. Maybe this doesn't apply to you, and if so, then great! But it is, to a very notable extent, true, and people would not be complaining (especially women, whom they supposedly represent) if this was not an issue. Sadly, there is really no way to prove either side of this argument, and thus it will go back and forth, but it's important to remember that you may have been missing out on what other people have encountered, including myself, and thus cannot understand why people like me and others do not feel comfortable around these individuals.

Also, unfortunately, like previously stated, some big players have been involved in some really questionable attitudes:



Perhaps that it is that I always prefer to lean on the side of being moderate in my opinions but frankly this is scary, dehumanizing s**t. I linked it before but I feel like you guys are missing the links (wrongplanet should really make links more visible).

It should be noted that I have gone through all sorts of irritating s**t through feminists; I've been told "you should get raped" (because I told people to wait until someone gets convicted before they go condemning someone), I've been told to go kill myself because I thought someone said something incredibly stupid and demeaning, I've have my gender, sex and disability erased, I've had my own being erased, I've been told that "my opinion doesn't matter because it doesn't reflect the majority" (how are you supposed to have an unbiased representation of what women want if you're only listening to some women?!).

The very fact that people think it's okay to act like there is something wrong with me because I'm not a feminist indicates that feminism does not represent what it claims. Feminists should be happy for someone like me, because I'm what they would call "A strong woman", who has a job in the STEM fields, who isn't submissive, who is competitive, assertive and dedicated; a person who thinks for herself, who comes up with her own conclusions on everything based on logic and reasoning, who excels in mathematically analyzing problems... but the moment that I tell them that I'm not a feminist, they think there's something wrong with that. Some people even erase all of these qualities to claim that I'm "Weak" for not being a feminist. What does all this nonsense even mean?

If you represent women's rights, then you shouldn't be telling women what they should do, or who they should be, because if you represent women's rights, you should be happy with whatever they decide to do with their lives. Because women can think for themselves and they are individuals, and should not be subject to the idea that they should be any certain way.



Its... Time. One of the most reliable magazine sources. Nonetheless, despite not citing hard statistics, it shows a horrible set of events that can be found in many cases (which are cited in the article). It shows that the 1 in 4 statistic is outright wrong (again) and how people have been lying to your face for years. The story highlights a very real event that replicates the level of paranoia that is occurring in society today, but with children instead of women.

Like I've stated previously there is a point where you really can't prevent rape because people will always be complete selfish as*holes, but the fact that it's been reduced so dramatically in recent years indicates that cultural attitudes towards it are changing from merely unacceptable to completely reprehensible. This is not culture's fault. In fact, by just doing the math again, the approx 84,000 rapes reported, leads to a maximum of (84000/157500000 = 0.0005), which is .05% of the male population. To put this in perspective, Bronycon 2013 had approximately 8,400 attendees. This leaves less than 3 attendees as convicted rapists. Rape levels are extremely low, and the number of rapists in the United States are an extremely small number of the population. Men do not deserve this constant demonization from feminists and even from laws (such as the difficulty for men to get custody of their kids). It should be noted that this percentage is the highest possible percentage by assuming all offenders are male and are not serial rapists. Rape is a horrible crime but it is very rare. It should be noted that almost all other forms of violent crime have more male victims (http://cooley.libarts.wsu.edu/criminolo ... zation.pdf).

Just a minor note, but the article was written by a feminist philosophy professor. It's important to note that while it is true that not all feminists are like what people like me criticize the majority of being, that the majority of feminists are acting in reprehensible ways in one way or another. Simply because that definition doesn't fit you doesn't mean that others aren't doing it.



Please read quotations found above. I genuinely believe that most feminists do not represent what you are explaining. Most men do not want to be associated with feminism because of blatant attitudes of man-hating found throughout the movement. Frankly, I don't really want to associate with them myself.


You can't just "control misogyny". Not in individuals. In western society almost all forms of misogyny are brutally condemned. I know this isn't formal, but next time you see a rape conviction in the news, or pretty much a female victim of anything, read the comments on the article. You will find almost all responses will be in support of the woman and condemning the nature of the man (even without conviction or evidence, which leads to problems in the aforementioned article). I don't know where you live, but where I live and where I've been the extent of misogyny is "some guy asking on a bus if you want to call him later tonight" which, while a little unnerving, is honestly negligible and people still condemn such behaviour.

So where is this universe where blatant misogyny occurs?

The reality is that misogyny is honestly a very small subset of problems that people encounter. Upon further observation of my coworker's problems listed in a few posts prior, I think that most of the problems she encountered is because 1) she has only been with the company 9 months, 2) her manager and his manager have been working together for 15 years and are kind of buddy-buddy and 3) She did not initially start the project, but did most of the work.

It's not that what she is encountering is right but rather what she is encountering is in her control. She can gain seniority in the company by continuing to work for them. She can talk to her manager and his manager to indicate why she should receive the proper treatment that she does. She can show people the amount of time she's put into the project to indicate why she needs proper treatment. These are all things that she has some control over. If you simply chalk it up to misogyny, what exactly are you supposed to do to improve your situation? You can't really "prove" misogyny unless it's blatant like touching you or completely mistreating you, but she hasn't encountered those problems. She gets paid the same as others with her skillset and level. She gets the same amount of say in the project, she has the same number of hours of work, she has the same level of workload, so she really cannot claim misogyny. The only thing she claimed was "misogynistic" was that she wasn't given credit for something on an email (even though this impacted nothing but recognition), which, while unacceptable, was probably explained by the three issues mentioned above far more than just "misogyny". And how do I know this? Well... I get recognition for the projects that I do. I always have. So perhaps there is a greater problem that one is covering with misogyny, but solving a very questionable tag of misogyny is a lot harder to even prove, let alone "fix", than the other things mentioned.

She's smart enough to not do this, but this highlights another problem with blaming many problems on misogyny - how would your coworkers react by telling them, "You didn't do this for me because you think women are inferior"? The reality is, your coworkers would be PISSED that you would say that about them, because they likely do not feel that way about that themselves at all (she defends this by claiming "they don't know any better" and are acting on some sort of uncontrollable aspect, which honestly is even more dehumanizing). So, if you can't fix your situation by just claiming misogyny, and you can't go up to them and talk about these issues like almost any other problem, then perhaps it's not the best solution to ignore other possibilities and

This is a problem oft encountered in feminist issues.

You want to understand what actual oppression is like? Talk to a blind person, ask them how they're treated. They're rejected jobs because people think they can't use the software, even if they prove it. They lose their jobs because people won't use accessible software, even when it's compatible with inaccessible software. Think about all the people who avoid them. Think about how they're treated every damn day. Even in comparison to most autistics they get a ton of s**t. Women on the other hand are treated very highly in this culture but the perpetual attitude of Feminism acts like they're just "objects", even when culture tells them "we don't think so". In fact, I honestly believe that a lot of the success of feminism currently is this very fact - that most people in the current age aren't misogynists and they want to prove that they aren't misogynists.

But the reality is, you can do that by just treating women like people. And that's what most people do.

tl;dr I'm not going to affiliate myself with a group of people of whom many act like 50% of the population are animals and consistently work hard to ignore their issues, while pretending to support them

[Moved from GAD to PPR]

Interesting reading on gender pay gap (Europe):
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statis ... statistics


I'd add that there may be differences within sectors that may increase gender pay gap so that looking at a sector and saying one gender earns more on average is not exact, one should look at individual positions and only then say that one or the other gender earns more in that position.

Also, I would be a big fan of gender equality, if we were biologically identical, which we are not. So, idealistically, if we lived in a totally egalitarian and absolutely fair world there still would be differences in how each gender would do its 'job' the best, not narrowing it down to only paying jobs that honor you with some kind of financial 'compensation' for your efforts. Money is not everything that counts in life.


It is important. However, statistics may well be skewed, as already has been mentioned.


I don't see the point in that one. Men on average die earlier. What should we do? :/


There are 'attractive men only' jobs, too (e.g. models). Females who may be seen as 'unattractive' can occupy a plethora of jobs that don't require a high level of (perceived) attractiveness. Also, who is attractive and who's not can be very subjective and public agreement can change with time.


The problem I see with this (apart from the above mentioned ones) is that many men might feel threatened by seeing the broad generalizations made by many 'feminists' and their typically occurring insensitiveness towards men's similar problems that manifest in different ways than theirs, not recognized due to their 'gender-blindness' or 'social-blindness'. Of course, the vice versa can be true as well. However, men are supposed to be 'tough' (aren't they?), another gender-stereotype which is often overlooked (by them).

OK, but you should make adjustments to current society to make that possible. Respecting free will of individuals/groups sometimes require the attention of us all. True feminism can be of help.

I bet my life savings that is wrong. Feminists don't walk around wearing signs. Most of the times you have encountered a feminist, you haven't known, you've had a perfectly agreeable encounter and that has been that.

Honestly, I don't think feminism is mostly an equality movement any more as such, not in the way most people would understand equality. It's more concerned with stopping people being horrible to each other.

You feel like it's not relevant to you, fine, but I don't think you should dismiss the issues of others because the harassment they suffer is just as real as the... lack of harassment you suffer?

"You grow up with your father holding you down and covering your mouth so another man can make a horrible searing pain between your legs." ? Catherine MacKinnon (Prominent legal feminist scholar; University of Michigan, & Yale.)

o.O to what is this referring to?

^100% fiction.[/quote]

corvuscorax,
Dworkin and SCUM are about as far from typical feminists as 4chan users are from typical civil rights activists.

Credible estimates of the rate of rape reporting range from 1 in 4 (75% unreported) to 1 in 20 (95% unreported). So the "required rate" of 1 in 5.78 unreported is not inconsistent with the literature.

I happen to think that the most shocking statistics about sexual assault are the result of cherry-picking, but even the less questionable stats are still waaaaay too high.

Who cares about statistics? Rape is not a nice thing, to say the least.

The rate of murder is relatively low, too---doesn't mean we must not vigilantly attack murder!

It's something that must be prevented.

However, it should not be assumed that men are inherently rapists.

No, you haven't gone far enough. We have a murder culture that needs to be addressed, and all unemployed people are inherently murderous.

If you don't agree, you're racist or something.

Undiagnosed vaginismus?
Guys that are really bad in bed?
Guys with gigantic penises who don't know how to be gentle?

I don't know. Sex doesn't hurt for me, and my father certainly never conditioned me to accept painful sex.

I don't think the "feminist scholar's" views reflect the experience of most people.

If what she said is true, that father should be exposed to prison vengeance, and hung on an ice pick.