04 Jan 2015, 11:09 am
04 Jan 2015, 11:48 am
04 Jan 2015, 11:53 am
04 Jan 2015, 12:01 pm
Persimmonpudding wrote:
My aggravation is not directed at gun-owners in general. I have several, all inherited.
Anti-gun / gun owners are not uncommon.
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There are certain people on here saying crap that is directly contradictory to fact, though, and they are doing so with airs of arrogance. They are citing demagogues rather than believable sources.
Who's facts, yours or mine?
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Let us be clear: carrying a gun for "safety" is a stupid idea. It never has and never will actually make you safer. Acknowledge that you carry it for a psychological sense of empowerment, which happens to be important for some people.
Carrying a gun is having a tool at your disposal to handle problems that said tool is needed to solve. The gun itself does not solve anything. If you were right then the streets would be running red with blood, given the number of carry permits and handguns in circulation.
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This does't mean that I am calling for guns to be banned. It doesn't work. The Harvard study illustrated this.
What might work would be keeping them out of the hands of people who have a history of not being able to handle themselves responsibly, WHICH WE ALREADY DO. The methods currently in use are the best available, except possibly those used by Sweden, which actually has a fairly high rate of gun ownership per capita but is nevertheless a very safe country. They also exercise a sensible, balanced policy.
What might work would be keeping them out of the hands of people who have a history of not being able to handle themselves responsibly, WHICH WE ALREADY DO. The methods currently in use are the best available, except possibly those used by Sweden, which actually has a fairly high rate of gun ownership per capita but is nevertheless a very safe country. They also exercise a sensible, balanced policy.
Move to Sweden, then.
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I don't have a problem with guns or people who own guns, but I cannot abide a man who lives a lie.
Yes, we all live a lie just to annoy you.
04 Jan 2015, 12:07 pm
04 Jan 2015, 12:15 pm
04 Jan 2015, 12:17 pm
04 Jan 2015, 12:26 pm
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Raptor wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
My cousin's gun discharged on him in the mid eighties so I don't know if that's considered modern, and my family said he didn't have the safety on and that's why it went off. They didn't go into elaborate detail, just the impression he was using the gun as a walking stick or cane while he walked and it went off when he went through the fence so maybe he accidentally squeezed the trigger or it brushed against a rock or the ground?
And of course I never pried into the event with a lot of questions because he never brought it up to anyone so I figured he didn't want to talk about the details.
And of course I never pried into the event with a lot of questions because he never brought it up to anyone so I figured he didn't want to talk about the details.
Then he pretty much f****d himself. A shotgun is not a walking stick and the only way to carry one in the field is with the safety ON and fingers OUT of the trigger guard whilst the weapon is always carried pointed in a safe direction. I know the type of person you're talking about and they tend to be an accident waiting to happen with or without a gun being in the equation. Some people just cannot be saved from themselves.
I am surprised it happened but he had this one friend who was really reckless even though his dad was always lecturing and talking about gun safety, if the one friend was around, he would have been less careful and I bet they were together when it happened.
You can't save some people from themselves. They'll find a way to hurt themselves over and over no matter what they are doing.
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I have a feeling the trigger smushed against a rock or ground when he went through the fence though and the pressure was strong enough to cause it to discharge.
Sounds like it didnt even have a trigger guard. If anything other than a finger is in the trigger guard it's usually a little tree branch or weed stalk.
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He had his hand on the end of the barrel.
Dumb.
04 Jan 2015, 12:32 pm
Raptor wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Raptor wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
My cousin's gun discharged on him in the mid eighties so I don't know if that's considered modern, and my family said he didn't have the safety on and that's why it went off. They didn't go into elaborate detail, just the impression he was using the gun as a walking stick or cane while he walked and it went off when he went through the fence so maybe he accidentally squeezed the trigger or it brushed against a rock or the ground?
And of course I never pried into the event with a lot of questions because he never brought it up to anyone so I figured he didn't want to talk about the details.
And of course I never pried into the event with a lot of questions because he never brought it up to anyone so I figured he didn't want to talk about the details.
Then he pretty much f****d himself. A shotgun is not a walking stick and the only way to carry one in the field is with the safety ON and fingers OUT of the trigger guard whilst the weapon is always carried pointed in a safe direction. I know the type of person you're talking about and they tend to be an accident waiting to happen with or without a gun being in the equation. Some people just cannot be saved from themselves.
I am surprised it happened but he had this one friend who was really reckless even though his dad was always lecturing and talking about gun safety, if the one friend was around, he would have been less careful and I bet they were together when it happened.
You can't save some people from themselves. They'll find a way to hurt themselves over and over no matter what they are doing.
Quote:
I have a feeling the trigger smushed against a rock or ground when he went through the fence though and the pressure was strong enough to cause it to discharge.
Sounds like it didnt even have a trigger guard. If anything other than a finger is in the trigger guard it's usually a little tree branch or weed stalk.
Quote:
He had his hand on the end of the barrel.
Dumb.
And another time he had a box of fireworks on his chest while he was laying down on his bed and he was taking matches, lighting them over the box and letting them fall down when he thought they had burned completely out except one was hotter than he thought and it set off the box of fireworks in his room, burned the carpet and stuff.
When I think about my cousin, I find this really shocking because he was always so quiet and very serious. He was never really like this until he moved out to the country and befriended the one guy.
The good news is, they both survived childhood and grew out of their reckless ways. Both have been quiet for years, no accidents or anything since teenagers.
04 Jan 2015, 12:34 pm
04 Jan 2015, 12:54 pm
Persimmonpudding wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Persimmonpudding seems to have wrong and prejudged generazations about gun owners. I don't know if they are basing this off a few they know or the general left leaning "they don't think like us so they wrong, lets call them names" theme. don't even feel like addressing each one would serve a point as they don't seem like they will stop or see why its wrong.
upsetting but something I've sadly seen a lot lately
My aggravation is not directed at gun-owners in general. I have several, all inherited.upsetting but something I've sadly seen a lot lately
There are certain people on here saying crap that is directly contradictory to fact, though, and they are doing so with airs of arrogance. They are citing demagogues rather than believable sources.
Let us be clear: carrying a gun for "safety" is a stupid idea. It never has and never will actually make you safer. Acknowledge that you carry it for a psychological sense of empowerment, which happens to be important for some people.
This does't mean that I am calling for guns to be banned. It doesn't work. The Harvard study illustrated this.
What might work would be keeping them out of the hands of people who have a history of not being able to handle themselves responsibly, WHICH WE ALREADY DO. The methods currently in use are the best available, except possibly those used by Sweden, which actually has a fairly high rate of gun ownership per capita but is nevertheless a very safe country. They also exercise a sensible, balanced policy.
I don't have a problem with guns or people who own guns, but I cannot abide a man who lives a lie.
You say: Let us be clear: carrying a gun for "safety" is a stupid idea. It never has and never will actually make you safer. Acknowledge that you carry it for a psychological sense of empowerment, which happens to be important for some people.
If you've never been in a situation that may require violent self-defense you might think the biased statement above is true. But your own true experiences and others published experiences tell us different. There are literally hundreds of published armed citizen encounters. The reason you don't hear of more positive armed citizen scenarios is the low level (%-wise) of people with carry permits. Anyone who is not pre-biased will be able to find numerous instances of successful self defense. And there are thousands of unreported instances where the mere presence of a gun will defuse a nasty situation.
Perhaps the "airs of arrogance" you mention are merely poorly hidden feelings of disdain for people who don't do their homework properly, and then attempt to paint others who are more educated, as "clueless." Perhaps asking questions is sometimes preferred over making sweeping statements. ????
04 Jan 2015, 12:57 pm
Raptor wrote:
Anti-gun / gun owners are not uncommon.
The pointYour head
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Who's facts, yours or mine?
The ones besides the lies peddled by your demagogues.Quote:
Carrying a gun is having a tool at your disposal to handle problems that said tool is needed to solve. The gun itself does not solve anything.
The same is true of nuclear arms. Your line of argument here is idiotic.Quote:
Move to Sweden, then.
Their gun laws are similar, in effect, to ours. Did you miss this point?Besides, Sweden is a nice country, but they are having enough trouble trying to assimilate some Syrian refuges without also dealing with an American afflicted with Aspergers, a loud voice, an argumentative disposition, and a foul temper.
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Yes, we all live a lie just to annoy you.
No, you are just deliberately delusional. You form your beliefs based on convenience, which is trashy.
04 Jan 2015, 1:12 pm
ZenDen wrote:
Persimmonpudding wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Persimmonpudding seems to have wrong and prejudged generazations about gun owners. I don't know if they are basing this off a few they know or the general left leaning "they don't think like us so they wrong, lets call them names" theme. don't even feel like addressing each one would serve a point as they don't seem like they will stop or see why its wrong.
upsetting but something I've sadly seen a lot lately
My aggravation is not directed at gun-owners in general. I have several, all inherited.upsetting but something I've sadly seen a lot lately
There are certain people on here saying crap that is directly contradictory to fact, though, and they are doing so with airs of arrogance. They are citing demagogues rather than believable sources.
Let us be clear: carrying a gun for "safety" is a stupid idea. It never has and never will actually make you safer. Acknowledge that you carry it for a psychological sense of empowerment, which happens to be important for some people.
This does't mean that I am calling for guns to be banned. It doesn't work. The Harvard study illustrated this.
What might work would be keeping them out of the hands of people who have a history of not being able to handle themselves responsibly, WHICH WE ALREADY DO. The methods currently in use are the best available, except possibly those used by Sweden, which actually has a fairly high rate of gun ownership per capita but is nevertheless a very safe country. They also exercise a sensible, balanced policy.
I don't have a problem with guns or people who own guns, but I cannot abide a man who lives a lie.
You say: Let us be clear: carrying a gun for "safety" is a stupid idea. It never has and never will actually make you safer. Acknowledge that you carry it for a psychological sense of empowerment, which happens to be important for some people.
If you've never been in a situation that may require violent self-defense you might think the biased statement above is true. But your own true experiences and others published experiences tell us different. There are literally hundreds of published armed citizen encounters. The reason you don't hear of more positive armed citizen scenarios is the low level (%-wise) of people with carry permits. Anyone who is not pre-biased will be able to find numerous instances of successful self defense. And there are thousands of unreported instances where the mere presence of a gun will defuse a nasty situation.
However, many people are more afraid of feeling helpless than actually coming to injury. This is a point that does not register with a lot of people.
Quote:
Perhaps the "airs of arrogance" you mention are merely poorly hidden feelings of disdain for people who don't do their homework properly, and then attempt to paint others who are more educated, as "clueless." Perhaps asking questions is sometimes preferred over making sweeping statements. ????
The sources I have cited are solid as a rock. I dare you to find fault with them, or I declare you a poltroon.
04 Jan 2015, 3:12 pm
04 Jan 2015, 3:39 pm
04 Jan 2015, 3:51 pm
