What was the purpose of Gamergate?

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I'm gonna be honest with you mate, you're starting to come off as incredibly hostile and rude, in addition to very presumptuous. If you think my ideas are wrong, you're free to do so and I encourage you to explain why you think so, but I will not brook some person making baseless accusations of me being willfully dishonest, especially whilst being such a dick about it. If you can't have a civil conversation, I'm going to find more productive things to do with my time.

"I'm gonna be honest with you mate, you're starting to come off as incredibly hostile and rude, in addition to very presumptuous."

if what I say offends you you can take a number get in line, and you know the rest. I'm calling what you say as I see it.


"If you think my ideas are wrong, you're free to do so and I encourage you to explain why you think so"

I've already shown you why they are wrong because you are dishonest or tried to, and every time you ignored what I said and spouted the same narrative I told you was invalid.


"not brook some person making baseless accusations of me being willfully dishonest, especially whilst being such a dick about it." says the person trying to say an entire discussion only has the dirty scary mra neckbeard boogy many misgonyst and the glorious saint feminists only trying to do good in the world.


" If you can't have a civil conversation, I'm going to find more productive things to do with my time."

the word civil means nothing here its "wah don't call me out for my dishonesty that's mean", and if you can't take criticism from me at this level, you shouldn't debate at all. I called the narrative you were spinning dishonest, not you. I showed you where it originated from and you just kept going you are either willfully dishonest or ignorant.

But yes, go do "more productive things with your time"

Last edited by AlistairM on 22 Feb 2015, 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anyway, since you can't have a civil discussion I'm done talking to you. If anyone else would like to discuss the topic I'm happy to engage them, provided they can do so in a reasonable manner.

"Anyway, since you can't have a civil discussion I'm done talking to you"

"wah I can't spread my dishonest BS with you I'll just go back to my echochamber."

civil and reasonable mean nothing to me currently define them. if you are offended by my tone it means nothing your feelings are not my problem. I've called what you say dishonest, this is attacking your idea not you. if you can't take that then debate isn't for you.

Calling someone's ideas wrong is attacking their ideas. Calling them willfully dishonest is an outright accusation against their character. It's a shame you cannot see that, and cannot see why your behavior is not conductive to any kind of debate. Should you ever decide you want to actually engage in productive discussion rather than take any chance to toss in as many snarky and cutting remarks as you can, I'm willing to give you a second chance.

what is dishonest is the narrative you present, you present it as there is just two types of a people a feminist or someone who hates women. this is blatantly dishonest about both reality and spews the same narrative the antigamers created to shill for the journalists who were first called out ethical violations. that's my argument. I hope that's more clear. I find people using women as a shield for their own immoral actions to be disgusting.

It seems to me that the reason Gamergate became so incendiary was how willing both sides were to throw lazy stereotypes around rather than actually listening to each other.

Nerds have long been treated as though their interests and identity are invalid. Somehow when feminists started asking for better representation of women and others in games somehow they heard what they've heard so many times before - they hate us and they're coming to take our games away. The nerds got angry and railed against the stereotype of the man-hating feminazi. There was some really dreadful behvaiour.

The feminist side then responded very quickly by dredging up and firing off all the old nerd stereotypes - basically saying that nerd equals Elliot Rodger.

Both sides dug in and the vile behaviour continued.

Personally, I think we need better representation of women and minorities in games if they are ever to "grow up" and of course the industry must be an environment where people of all backgrounds are welcome to work.

I'd also like to see the back of lazy stereotypes like this

being posted in an attempt to shut down reasoned debate.

@Falloy: Exactly. Another excellent post on the topic. I do honestly feel bad for the myriad of women (and some men) that were unfairly targeted and harassed online, but that's different from recognizing that a number of people ostensibly on the feminist side were expressing some incredibly poor behavior that worked to only escalate the situation, which in itself lead directly to the victimization of more people, many of them perfectly innocent.

"Calling someone's ideas wrong is attacking their ideas. "

means nothing to me

" Calling them willfully dishonest is an outright accusation against their character. " you HAVE been willfully dishonest fact that's not even debatable. saying that every single gamergate gater is a misogynist is a lie and slanderious one that that you are the one first to make accusations against peoples character here.


" It's a shame you cannot see that, and cannot see why your behavior is not conductive to any kind of debate"

its a shame you can't see why yours is the same its no more conductive than mine, you've towed what is blatantly wrong and slanders huge numbers of people for your own narrative. "all people who r pro gamur gate are misgonnyeist biggots"


"Should you ever decide you want to actually engage in productive discussion rather than take any chance to toss in as many snarky and cutting remarks as you can, I'm willing to give you a second chance."

I don't particularly care either way man there isn't much to discussion left imo its about at the end. productive means nothing define it. now you are just trying to shame me into agreeing with your false narrative you've been given.

"Personally, I think we need better representation of women and minorities in games if they are ever to "grow up" and of course the industry must be an environment where people of all backgrounds are welcome to work."
Grow up doesn't mean anything there is no such thing as a mature or less mature art this means nothing its another nonsense narrative, the later is already what is is now, anyone can create there own game and publish it via steam or work at any company. there is literally no way people could be kept out of a n industry based purely on merit like game design.

In my very first post I noted that there were figures like TotalBiscuit. Mate, really, I just...my toucan has flown the coup. Good luck in your future debates.

this also is two separate subjects now one is what the feminists use controversy to do they have tried to steal the topic and make it their own imo to stand on some soap boxes and spout more of the status quo BS , you are talking about representation which means nothing imo, art is not a mean't to recreate reality perfectly or be some kind of hearing where everything has to be equal. art is not the senate where are rights come from so I see no way how you can make this moral. what the original topic was is should the people who write about how I should spend my money be accountable for breaches of classical ethics of journalism taught in most universities? the topic you are bringing up has always been a red herring or dishonest redirection used by the people who were called out for immoral actions is that conversation being used as a midirection something that should be had, Yes. but personally I seriously doubt there is anything stopping people of any race, or gender from working in gaming its just too merit based. especially when any group can form their own company and publish indie games to steam so easily now. this "we need to help the poor oppressed women get into gayuming" is patronizing and sexist imo.

Last edited by AlistairM on 22 Feb 2015, 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Same too you, m8.

what exactly does "my toucan has flown the coup" mean anyways?

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Thread temporarily locked pending further review.

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[MODERATOR]

The poster AlistairM has been banned.

This topic may continue as long as everyone stays civil.

Thanks, everybody.

[/MODERATOR]

There is a lot to be gained politically from defining definitions and attributes of certain groups. A lot of what GamerGate seemed to be doing was defining feminism away from something that would be palatable to most people. I don't use Tumblr. From what I have read it is mainly a site for superficial ultra-pc opinion and ego aggrandisement. Stereotypical "Tumblr" feminists are not representative of feminism as a whole, yet they are the type that GG overwhelmingly equates with "feminism". They are the type that GG spends the majority of its time talking about. There are far more prominent feminists who are sane and who also happen to champion issues which GamerGate purports to be concerned about. Naomi Wolf, a leftist feminist who does very brave work regarding civil liberties and is outspoken on the issue of media corruption was never given a shout out in any of the hundreds of video's and articles i've seen from the pro GG side, nor was any other feminist. You would think it would be relevant.

I am not politically aligned left or right, as I appreciate elements from both traditions, but it is hard to miss the leftward trajectory of most GamerGate attacks. If you're talking about media corruption and you focus entirely on left aligned or entirely on right aligned "journalism", It speaks volumes about your lack of willingness or capacity for disinterested opinion. It also suggests that your motives might have more to do with partisan sprucing than integrity in journalism.

Having said that, Gamergate did throw out some real issues.