Thinking about murder- illness or immoral?

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I was thinking about that pilot Andreas Lubitz and how the news seems to be preoccupied with his mental state and whether he was fit to fly. I started thinking about mental health issues in which people do think about/feel compelled to put other people's lives at risk and I wonder how people can address that?

My friends reckon that he was a psychopath, but I think it's wrong for unqualified people to diagnose somebody post-mortem. Frankly, nobody knows what what going through his head during the incident and I don't think anyone ever will know. But there are indeed people who are plagued with thoughts of harming others, whether this is due to some psychosis or intrusive, unwanted thoughts of harming people or whathaveyou.

What do you do if you have thoughts of hurting people? Even if you don't ever intend to harm people, how does one deal with those thoughts and how can someone talk about them with somebody? It's hard enough to talk about suicide, so what about murder suicide? Or just murder?

Hmm if it's only thoughts then don't feel bad or try to stop thinking that way on purpose because you'll get more intrusive thoughts.

I agree with that sentiment. I myself don't have these thoughts, but I do remember what it was like to have very intrusive thoughts when I was younger. I didn't have OCD, but I used to have panic disorder, so I was really vigilant about things that might kill me (I was very preoccupied with death and stuff like that triggered my symptoms) and sometimes I would just get a flash of some horrible thought, like a serial killer breaking in the house and murdering my whole family. Sometimes the thoughts got more irrational, like worrying that a robot uprising was happening and the toaster would kill us in our sleep. Don't ask why - I was a weird kid.

It was bad enough worrying that my family and I were going to meet some gruesome fates, so I can hardly imagine how scary it would be thinking that you might kill your own family. I know I've felt so angry that i thought I might kill someone, and that terrified me, but I don't know if that's the same thing as constant intrusive thoughts.

I used to have strange thoughts that people want to kill me or are spying on me. i thought maybe i was developing schizophrenia but it was anxiety. I used to be worried I'd hurt people that I liked and thought what if I did. I was hypervigalent around others and didn't trust anyone either. . I don't have thoughts like this anymore. All of this turned out to be because of anxiety but i'd lived with it a long time so it was normal and i didn't really feel anxious.I've been told that it's normal to temporarily feel like you want you to kill someone if your proper angry; but you don't really mean mean it when your not angry anymore.

You are implying a lot things that aren't true.

1. Murder =/= Killing.

The definition of murder from oxford dictionary is: "The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another." Thus, if the plane was full of terrorist it would not be an act of murder but justice.

2. Morals exist.
This is a fairly childish belief to have. Here is a quote from Nieztche on morals:

Morality makes stupid.-- Custom represents the experiences of men of earlier times as to what they supposed useful and harmful - but the sense for custom (morality) applies, not to these experiences as such, but to the age, the sanctity, the indiscussability of the custom. And so this feeling is a hindrance to the acquisition of new experiences and the correction of customs: that is to say, morality is a hindrance to the development of new and better customs: it makes stupid.

from Nietzsche's Daybreak,s. 19, R.J. Hollingdale transl.

3. By your own logic everyone would be ill since we killing plants, animals, and humans to survive. Even a cat that killed a bird would be ill or lack morality.

“Compassion is the basis of morality.”
Arthur Schopenhauer

I actually don't disagree with your points (especially the one about morality). I was just trying to get in the mindset of a person who might ruminate over the possibility that they might do something they personally find morally objectionable.

I don't think people are bad or even dangerous because they have thought about killing people. I think they become a danger to others when they decide to act on those thoughts. While I have had fleeting moments of thinking I might murder my neighbours for playing their stupid music at 3 o'clock in the f*****g morning, I have never obsessed over something like that. I wonder how people can talk about stuff like this without worrying they are going to get sectioned or arrested. It's hard enough to tell people that you self harm.

Killing for reason like for food is fine but not for other self-satisfaction things like entertainment, I have sadism and I sometimes think about harming other forms of life for no reason, but I don't because it's my 'illness' so I have to learn to control it because I can't just go harming others for my satisfaction and use 'illness' as an excuse. It's kinda like bullying when bullies bully only to feed their satisfaction in something and bullying is bullying no matter what the bully is 'ill' with.

Moved from GAD.

Well, it's a behavior. I think some people just get in their heads that murder-suicide is the way to go! It will solve all their problems! Lol, strange.

Lol. If you report murderous thoughts to a psychiatrist they are obligated to inform authorities. The psychiatrists/psychologist dropped the ball in this particular instance regarding Lubitz. I believe he was asking for help and got nothing in return. I stupid little note saying he can't fly??? How stupid. Of course he's going to rip it up. My question here is how much did the psychiatrist know?

I sometimes think that when people disclose thoughts like this they actually want to be locked up.. this is just a conjecture though. This was my feeling towards Holmes anyway.

Those thoughts are nothing if you don't plan on making them true.

Many people like watching horror, thriller and action movies, play killing video games. It doesn't make them psychopaths. Neither evil thoughts do. As long as you know the difference between imagination and reality.

Think through the implications of that. IF that's the case then writers, readers and watchers of fiction, nonfiction, documentaries and the news media about murder are ill and immoral. and, we're all ill and immoral for reflecting on this story. That's silly.

Constantly feeling guilty about what you think, will lead to psychosis. It does'nt help anyone but tyrants to have ideas regarded as objects of shame. I think a person should only be concerned with the morality of what they do, because that is what affects other people. Not thoughts, coming as they do, often unbidden and unwanted from god knows where. The good or bad of them being subjective to the one experiencing them. And, seeing as a good can originate from a thought that is superficially bleak, etc.

Fair enough. I reckon it was turning into more of a debate anyway.

All I could think of was what if I was on a flight with a co pilot like Andreas Lubitz? It would suck. Then I could see how it sucked for all the ones on board. Psychopathic seems like an adequate description of his actions. I would not want to sacrifice my life for this clown in crisis. If he was having medical problems, he needed to deal with them.

As far as thinking about murder, well, it depends entirely on the situation.

Pilot with access to airplane thinking about crashing it - very troubling.

Me thinking about crashing an airplane - not so troubling.

It's because I do not have access to an airplane. It would take great effort for me to execute that plan since I would have to first figure out how to get into the cockpit, then I would need to figure out how to make the airplane crash.

A pilot has limitless opportunities to put his fantasy into motion so it would be more immoral for him to have that fantasy than I but it would suggest negative things about my overall mentality if I had it.

I meant if the psychologist had reason to believe there was a good chance he was putting passengers in danger by flying.

I chose my words carelessly since I thought it would be obvious what I meant.

I like to watch horror movies. This doesn't mean I fantasize about killing people. And no for the record I don't think it's normal and I don't want people with violent fantasies flying planes, period... it is a sickness, it's not normal. These types of people who go on spree killings are relieved after they kill. This isn't normal. It's pathological... I do believe it is an illness, but it's important to keep in mind that the act of murder is a behavior, not an illness.

Getting more to the point, murder is immoral, but having violent fantasies is an illness imo.

I am not protecting the pilot because nothing justifies what he did.

But people usually get "murder thoughts" about people and things that are their everyday reality.

Thoughts like "I wish my boss was dead because he is so mean to me", "the knife could be easily used to kill someone in wrong hands" or "if that drunk idiot suddenly jumps out in front of my car now I might not be able to avoid hitting him." are common. Most people just don't pay attention to those because those are short(sometimes too short to be seen), unimportant thoughts with no desire to make them true. But everyone got those. It's a part of how people make decisions.

I don't think it is that uncommon for airplane pilots to occasionally think "If I hit the button now the plane will crash". But they don't plan to do it, actually they imagine the situation so they see what could happen and decide not to do it ever. It's like playing chess - you need to imagine results of all possible moves to choose the best one. It doesn't mean you want to make the bad move you just imagined. You just imagine what would happen if you made it so you know the result without testing it.