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Choose one of following:
I am very concerned about the preservation of white heritage/race 8%  8%  [ 16 ]
I believe the above concern is unfounded and racist 54%  54%  [ 104 ]
I think the view in option #1 raises some good issues, but SOME people take it too far 13%  13%  [ 25 ]
I think the view in option #1 raises some good issues, but MANY people take it too far 8%  8%  [ 15 ]
show me the money (view results) 17%  17%  [ 32 ]
Total votes : 192

auntblabby
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16 Aug 2015, 2:14 am

trayder wrote:
We are an unusual type...strongly instinctual feelings as all humans but a stong logic centre or one that revolves around reason which for me anyways translates into a more clinical approach to people and society. Of course I am fearful in poor/unsafe areas but even in the midst of those feelings I know exactly why so I seldom succumb to them.

what can you tell me about your logical process to avoid assuming?



auntblabby
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16 Aug 2015, 2:16 am

with me, I've been treated just as shabbily by white folks as I have by non-whites. so I fear all races.



MarketAndChurch
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16 Aug 2015, 2:53 am

Katira wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
Being race-blind shouldn't make you reality-blind. To not assume is to enter every situation as a newborn, discovering things anew. It's nice to be nice, but it's also smart to be cautious, and that doesn't make you a bad person.
But does caution have to be about race? Why not a fake smile? The worst criminals in this world are white men in luxurious offices...


Walking through certain poor drug-ridden inner-city neighborhoods at night, you'd most likely breathe a sigh of relief if the footsteps you heard behind you were coming from a white man in a suit who works in a luxurious tower. And that's irrespective of the racial makeup of that neighborhood. Even if said-white guy in a suit who works in a luxurious office is there to pick up his coke or reorganize his prostitution ring, they tend to be fairly harmless to other individuals who aren't of their skin color.

But that's not what I'm talking about here. What I'm talking about is being cautious of other races, because they may not like your race, and as a result, harm you because of it.


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Pepe
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16 Aug 2015, 2:56 am

Katira wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Katira wrote:
I can honestly say I´m not a racist. I truly don´t think any ethnicity is above another.


There was a considerable controversy in regards to a book call "The Bell Curve..."
"The book was controversial, especially where the authors wrote about racial differences in intelligence and discussed the implications of those differences."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve
Sure, but intelligence is only one part of a person. Also there is different kinds of intelligence. You can´t judge a human being or a "race" by one quality only.


I agree with all of your remarks...
I am not judging anyone, if that is what you are saying...

I am simply making two implicit comments:
1. Intellectual considerations can be scuttled by emotion oriented political correctness...
2. An irrational response doesn't alter/expose the truth of the matter...

Regarding Intelligence:
I believe they are specifically talking about intellectual/cognitive intelligence.
" Herrnstein and Murray's central argument is that human intelligence is substantially influenced by both inherited and environmental factors and is a better predictor of many personal dynamics, including financial income, job performance, birth out of wedlock, and involvement in crime than are an individual's parental socioeconomic status, or education level."

I haven't read the book, btw...
I just know about the controversy it created...



Pepe
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16 Aug 2015, 3:22 am

Spiderpig wrote:
Pepe wrote:
There is a well known correlation between poverty and antisocial behaviour...
There are genetic influences involved in personality traits...
And of course, there are also cultural influences affecting personal attitudes/morality-systems...


Pepe wrote:
However, environmental and genetic influences can and do create *tendencies*...
Courts of law do (and should, imo) take these factors into consideration...


How exactly? By systematically favoring the rich against the poor (easy to implement by accepting bribes), whites against blacks, and so on, on the grounds that the latter are statistically more likely to be criminals, even if there's no evidence to incriminate the specific individuals?


WTF?...lol
You took my comment "arse about tit"...
Settle petal... :wink:

I am saying that those with an underprivileged background...
Or those with social issues...
Or those being intellectually/emotionally challenged...
Etc...
"Should" be given greater consideration...
And debilitating circumstance "should" be considered as a mitigating factor...



Pepe
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16 Aug 2015, 3:34 am

auntblabby wrote:
with me, I've been treated just as shabbily by white folks as I have by non-whites. so I fear all races.


Humans are the most blood thirsty, malicious, cruel, ruthless, self serving species that has ever evolved on or off terrafirma...

Be afraid...
Be *very* afraid... :mrgreen:



trayder
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16 Aug 2015, 3:40 am

auntblabby wrote:
trayder wrote:
We are an unusual type...strongly instinctual feelings as all humans but a stong logic centre or one that revolves around reason which for me anyways translates into a more clinical approach to people and society. Of course I am fearful in poor/unsafe areas but even in the midst of those feelings I know exactly why so I seldom succumb to them.

what can you tell me about your logical process to avoid assuming?


I cannot really understand emotional drama and I include racism in that classification.

I was born in South Africa and as a child knew that racial domination was breeding a lot of pain for everyone in the future.

If the well off who were obviously trying to protect their privilege had instead schooled a class of middle class blacks, the place could have been another Cayman Islands....good living for everyone.

Racism is just dumb as a system...no one really benefits apart from a generation of over the top domination followed by generations of pointless conflict.



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16 Aug 2015, 3:59 am

MarketAndChurch wrote:

But that's not what I'm talking about here. What I'm talking about is being cautious of other races, because they may not like your race, and as a result, harm you because of it.


"True dat"...
Hate is a two way street...

Best not be in the middle of a tragic misunderstanding...
Best to be situationally aware and avoid the problem in the first place...



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16 Aug 2015, 4:46 am

Said's Orientalism is a good reference for this issue. The disproportionate number of blacks in prison is primarily down to the criminlisation of black life. Prohibition was a reactionary response to jazz musicians and their chosen poisons. The amount of young black men in prison for Marijuana related offences is staggering. Being sent to prison is like attending criminal college and these men graduate with a newfound skillset.

This is one example of how European society actually creates conditions in which racism can thrive. Islamophobia is another great instance insofar as we're seeing virtually every aspect of muslim life subjected to scrutiny.

This is just group dynamics on a massive scale. The western identity needs a criminal other in order to thrive because it is partially defined by its opposite. In this case the west has manufactured its own axes of evil


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trayder
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16 Aug 2015, 5:25 am

Ectryon wrote:
Said's Orientalism is a good reference for this issue. The disproportionate number of blacks in prison is primarily down to the criminlisation of black life. Prohibition was a reactionary response to jazz musicians and their chosen poisons. The amount of young black men in prison for Marijuana related offences is staggering. Being sent to prison is like attending criminal college and these men graduate with a newfound skillset.

This is one example of how European society actually creates conditions in which racism can thrive. Islamophobia is another great instance insofar as we're seeing virtually every aspect of muslim life subjected to scrutiny.

This is just group dynamics on a massive scale. The western identity needs a criminal other in order to thrive because it is partially defined by its opposite. In this case the west has manufactured its own axes of evil


Mmmm. Thrive but for how long. If find NTs an odd lot. They seem to excel in shooting themselves in the foot as individuals or as a group.



MarketAndChurch
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16 Aug 2015, 5:59 am

Ectryon wrote:
Said's Orientalism is a good reference for this issue. The disproportionate number of blacks in prison is primarily down to the criminlisation of black life. Prohibition was a reactionary response to jazz musicians and their chosen poisons. The amount of young black men in prison for Marijuana related offences is staggering. Being sent to prison is like attending criminal college and these men graduate with a newfound skillset.


I think that's partially true, certainly the latter half. But I think Black incarceration rates owe themselves mostly to bad decisions influenced by bad values. Values, that creates a culture whose context is prone to leading it's subscribers into constant run-ins with each other, and as a result, the law. Recent black immigrants most often don't have this cultural narrative, so they tend not to commit crimes, and law enforcement tends to leave them alone.

Ectryon wrote:
This is one example of how European society actually creates conditions in which racism can thrive. Islamophobia is another great instance insofar as we're seeing virtually every aspect of muslim life subjected to scrutiny.


There is Islamophobia because you took in broken people who come from broken societies that are falling apart, and then give them cover from any and every critique, something the Left often does with other "victim" groups it defends, from blacks of slave ancestry, to native Americans, to gays and women, etc. As Muslm Irshad Manji rightly notes... this is going to build resentment. Certainly there's a lot of unfair critique as well, but that's only natural when you blend together two unique and distinct cultures into a mixed wholeness that isn't. Muslims also resent Europeans too... heavily... and very often unjustifiably. Wine drinking, swine eating inferior backwards neocolonial heathens.

Ectryon wrote:
This is just group dynamics on a massive scale. The western identity needs a criminal other in order to thrive because it is partially defined by its opposite. In this case the west has manufactured its own axes of evil


That is the Leftist secular narrative about the West, but it's also rather universal, existing outside the West. And I don't think it's as big a problem here in the west, as it is outside the west. In the West, we're far more tolerant of blacks, not to mention go out of our way to criticize our own when we treat blacks indecently, and that doesn't exist in most of the world. Certainly not in the Arab Middle East, or SE Asia, or even in many parts of Latin America.


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Ectryon
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16 Aug 2015, 5:59 am

trayder wrote:
Ectryon wrote:
Said's Orientalism is a good reference for this issue. The disproportionate number of blacks in prison is primarily down to the criminlisation of black life. Prohibition was a reactionary response to jazz musicians and their chosen poisons. The amount of young black men in prison for Marijuana related offences is staggering. Being sent to prison is like attending criminal college and these men graduate with a newfound skillset.

This is one example of how European society actually creates conditions in which racism can thrive. Islamophobia is another great instance insofar as we're seeing virtually every aspect of muslim life subjected to scrutiny.

This is just group dynamics on a massive scale. The western identity needs a criminal other in order to thrive because it is partially defined by its opposite. In this case the west has manufactured its own axes of evil


Mmmm. Thrive but for how long. If find NTs an odd lot. They seem to excel in shooting themselves in the foot as individuals or as a group.


The NT vs Aspie war draws on the same psychological mechanisms as racism. There is no such thing as an NT really. There are just people better at adapting to the codes and rules of this world we've built. If the rules changed so too would the definition of NT.

Same goes with race too. Slavic individuals are considered white.... sort of. In the UK the far right strain tend to villify Romanians and Indo Europeans. Again there is no such thing as a white gene, there's just a vast continuum of traits and genetic combinations . Race is just a convenient grouping system because its immediately apparent. It breaks down in some cases however.

These thinking systems also become self fulfilling prophecies.


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My history on this forum preserves my old and unregenerate self. In the years since I posted here I have undergone many changes. I accept responsibility for my posts but I no longer stand behind them.
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And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high Hebrews 1:3


Katira
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16 Aug 2015, 6:11 am

Spiderpig wrote:
I'm pretty sure not all those types are white or male.
Was this for me, about my post above? If so: you mean there are women and people with all kinds of ethnic backgrounds in high positions today? Yes, we see more of a mix today, but it hasn´t always been like that. The white male domination has been the norm for a long time.



MarketAndChurch
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16 Aug 2015, 6:19 am

Ectryon wrote:
The NT vs Aspie war draws on the same psychological mechanisms as racism. There is no such thing as an NT really. There are just people better at adapting to the codes and rules of this world we've built. If the rules changed so too would the definition of NT.


Maybe sexism too... women are more and more leading institutions of society and especially places of management or jobs that put an emphasis in "dealing with people." So the world we live in(here in the US) is a far more social one as a result. That's not NT's fault that we occupy this context either, but that is our current social landscape. Going forward too, mostly the social survive or have upward mobility(whereas occupations that can be automated will be given to robots), so the cream of the crop will leave behind many NT's who are fine socially but not as sharp as the batch who will run the world of tomorrow. And the majority of those who do well from that batch, will, be women. So the aspie vs. NT discussion is going to definitely have a dimension that involves gender and sexism.


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Katira
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16 Aug 2015, 6:31 am

Pepe wrote:
Katira wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Katira wrote:
I can honestly say I´m not a racist. I truly don´t think any ethnicity is above another.


There was a considerable controversy in regards to a book call "The Bell Curve..."
"The book was controversial, especially where the authors wrote about racial differences in intelligence and discussed the implications of those differences."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve
Sure, but intelligence is only one part of a person. Also there is different kinds of intelligence. You can´t judge a human being or a "race" by one quality only.


I agree with all of your remarks...
I am not judging anyone, if that is what you are saying...

I am simply making two implicit comments:
1. Intellectual considerations can be scuttled by emotion oriented political correctness...
2. An irrational response doesn't alter/expose the truth of the matter...

Regarding Intelligence:
I believe they are specifically talking about intellectual/cognitive intelligence.
" Herrnstein and Murray's central argument is that human intelligence is substantially influenced by both inherited and environmental factors and is a better predictor of many personal dynamics, including financial income, job performance, birth out of wedlock, and involvement in crime than are an individual's parental socioeconomic status, or education level."

I haven't read the book, btw...
I just know about the controversy it created...
Sorry, my bad: my post was about the book, not you :)
I haven´t read it either, that´s why I feel uncomfortable discussing it.



Pepe
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16 Aug 2015, 7:29 am

Ectryon wrote:

The NT vs Aspie war draws on the same psychological mechanisms as racism. There is no such thing as an NT really. There are just people better at adapting to the codes and rules of this world we've built. If the rules changed so too would the definition of NT.


Beg to differ...

The majority (in a position of power) define what is considered normal...
And they design social norms in a certain way because there is usually a natural affinity with that code of behaviour by that majority...
Memes survive because they have some benefit/connectivity to the majority of that specific community...

How many aspies are comfortable with "white lies" which are the "bread and butter" of neurotypical society, for example?