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sephardic-male
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31 Aug 2015, 3:41 pm

b9 wrote:
Quote:
Girl destroys feminism in 3 minutes

and the video destroys my attention in 2



http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf

The rate of rape and sexual assault was 1.2 times higher
for nonstudents (7.6 per 1,000) than for students (6.1 per
1,000).

„ For both college students and nonstudents, the offender
was known to the victim in about 80% of rape and sexual
assault victimizations.
„


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31 Aug 2015, 3:51 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
Or maybe because prison rape is considered part of the punishment?

It probably is, but there should be legal clarity on this then. If being raped goes along with imprisonment for any crime, then the government/legal system should just say so. At least then there could be a conversation about it.



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31 Aug 2015, 3:57 pm

wilburforce wrote:
glebel wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
glebel wrote:
A fair and level playing field is the only way we can move ahead. This "Affirmative Action" crap doesn't work, and all it does is lower the standards in society in general. We need a meritocracy, not more of this tyranny of the 'entitled'. I have never abused a woman, never enslaved a black, and I treat everybody the same. Why do I owe something to people that liberals say are disadvantaged? Under this system, I'm disadvantaged.


intersectional feminism if this term doesn't help you understand how it's possible to be disadvantaged in various different ways while being advantaged in others (like a person who is male and educated, but also black and disabled; or a person who is white and heterosexual, but also female and very poor) then you will never understand.

How am I advantaged? You don't know me, and yet you make some kind of assertion that I'm lying in a bed of roses? Because I am obviously a white male, I must be having life all my way? And apparently I'm ignorant too. :roll:


does that mean you didn't read/can't understand the information in the link?

I didn't read it because if you can't be bothered to articulate your opinion and express it yourself, I can't be bothered to listen to you. I quickly found that a lot of the most specious positions laid out on this website come from people who want you to ' click on this link'. Nuts to that!


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31 Aug 2015, 4:00 pm

wilburforce wrote:
glebel wrote:
A fair and level playing field is the only way we can move ahead. This "Affirmative Action" crap doesn't work, and all it does is lower the standards in society in general. We need a meritocracy, not more of this tyranny of the 'entitled'. I have never abused a woman, never enslaved a black, and I treat everybody the same. Why do I owe something to people that liberals say are disadvantaged? Under this system, I'm disadvantaged.


intersectional feminism if this term doesn't help you understand how it's possible to be disadvantaged in various different ways while being advantaged in others (like a person who is male and educated, but also black and disabled; or a person who is white and heterosexual, but also female and very poor) then you will never understand.

Intersectional oppression theory fails when subjected to specific tests, such as incarceration and prison rape for men, as mentioned in the video. Under intersectional oppression theory, individuals who belong to multiple marginalized groups experience more oppression than those who belong to fewer. For example, disabled white women experience more oppression than white women, and disabled black women experience more oppression than disabled white women.

Such a system cannot explain how black men get incarcerated at a higher rate than black women (that is proportionally wider than the disparity in crimes actually committed), who according to intersectional oppression should be the more oppressed group.

However, this is all tangential to the point being made in the video. The author's point is that third wave Feminism is not the catch-all for equality that many feminists claim it to be. If it were, issues like incarceration inequality would be every bit as large as other issues in the movement's agenda, regardless of the intersectionality.

I don't have problems with much of the agenda pushed by modern feminism. However, I definitely draw the line when people claim that anyone who doesn't identify themselves as feminist is against equality, for exactly the reasons stated in the video.



Thethreeunforgivables
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31 Aug 2015, 7:23 pm

gamerdad wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
glebel wrote:
A fair and level playing field is the only way we can move ahead. This "Affirmative Action" crap doesn't work, and all it does is lower the standards in society in general. We need a meritocracy, not more of this tyranny of the 'entitled'. I have never abused a woman, never enslaved a black, and I treat everybody the same. Why do I owe something to people that liberals say are disadvantaged? Under this system, I'm disadvantaged.


intersectional feminism if this term doesn't help you understand how it's possible to be disadvantaged in various different ways while being advantaged in others (like a person who is male and educated, but also black and disabled; or a person who is white and heterosexual, but also female and very poor) then you will never understand.

Intersectional oppression theory fails when subjected to specific tests, such as incarceration and prison rape for men, as mentioned in the video. Under intersectional oppression theory, individuals who belong to multiple marginalized groups experience more oppression than those who belong to fewer. For example, disabled white women experience more oppression than white women, and disabled black women experience more oppression than disabled white women.

Such a system cannot explain how black men get incarcerated at a higher rate than black women (that is proportionally wider than the disparity in crimes actually committed), who according to intersectional oppression should be the more oppressed group.

However, this is all tangential to the point being made in the video. The author's point is that third wave Feminism is not the catch-all for equality that many feminists claim it to be. If it were, issues like incarceration inequality would be every bit as large as other issues in the movement's agenda, regardless of the intersectionality.

I don't have problems with much of the agenda pushed by modern feminism. However, I definitely draw the line when people claim that anyone who doesn't identify themselves as feminist is against equality, for exactly the reasons stated in the video.


Quoted for truth.



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31 Aug 2015, 8:08 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
*shrug* third wave feminism is pretty effed.

The only thing she said that i have a problem with is how she equates women getting raped by men in college with men getting raped by men in prison.


Why? Because men in prison are far more likely to be raped than women in college? Or because prison and college are so wildly different?

Consider it from the perspective that prison is fast becoming 'college' for a large number of young men.


Prison becoming college? Please.

Perhaps because men are the aggressors in both scenarios, though.


Or maybe because prison rape is considered part of the punishment?


It's commonplace for us on the outside to joke about it, but no, people are sent to prison as punishment, not to receive punishment. And prisons that don't investigate and prosecute rape are themselves criminal.



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31 Aug 2015, 8:12 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
Or maybe because prison rape is considered part of the punishment?
It probably is, but there should be legal clarity on this then. If being raped goes along with imprisonment for any crime, then the government/legal system should just say so. At least then there could be a conversation about it.

At the same time it could be considered a reward for the rapists.



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31 Aug 2015, 8:16 pm

I support 2nd wave feminism, but I think 3rd wave feminism is ridiculous. The way I see things, men and women are different, but equal at the same time. Neither sex should have more or less power than the other; men and women both have their own strengths and weaknesses that need to be considered.

I will admit however that being male, I am not in the best position to understand debate on women's issues. It's hard for me to understand what being female is like, because I'm simply not. I may have a feminine side, but that's not at all the same thing.



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31 Aug 2015, 11:24 pm

glebel wrote:
I didn't read it because if you can't be bothered to articulate your opinion and express it yourself, I can't be bothered to listen to you. I quickly found that a lot of the most specious positions laid out on this website come from people who want you to ' click on this link'. Nuts to that!


Exactly. If someone thinks they have a case to make, then they should present it themselves, in their own words. To just say, 'Here is my link, click on it', is just laziness on their part.



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01 Sep 2015, 5:50 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
I support 2nd wave feminism, but I think 3rd wave feminism is ridiculous. The way I see things, men and women are different, but equal at the same time. Neither sex should have more or less power than the other; men and women both have their own strengths and weaknesses that need to be considered.

I will admit however that being male, I am not in the best position to understand debate on women's issues. It's hard for me to understand what being female is like, because I'm simply not. I may have a feminine side, but that's not at all the same thing.
I agree, which is why I identify as a humanist egalitarian and not a femenist. Its a no brainer women suffer oppression and discrimination, its not as bad in the western world as it is in the middle east though and other countires and they need it the most, however when the same situations happen to men the 3rd wavers ignore it and laugh it off, or they sweep it under the carpet, it is the 3rd wave that has caused the rise in MRA groups like MGTOW because many men are getting sick of it and being vilified and other crap, dont get me wrong there was one possitive thing the 3rd wave has brought and that is the sex possitive feminists but they dissasociate themselves with the rest of the 3rd wavers because the others are mostly radicals who are one sided about things.


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01 Sep 2015, 9:48 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
I support 2nd wave feminism, but I think 3rd wave feminism is ridiculous. The way I see things, men and women are different, but equal at the same time. Neither sex should have more or less power than the other; men and women both have their own strengths and weaknesses that need to be considered.

I will admit however that being male, I am not in the best position to understand debate on women's issues. It's hard for me to understand what being female is like, because I'm simply not. I may have a feminine side, but that's not at all the same thing.
I agree, which is why I identify as a humanist egalitarian and not a femenist. Its a no brainer women suffer oppression and discrimination, its not as bad in the western world as it is in the middle east though and other countires and they need it the most, however when the same situations happen to men the 3rd wavers ignore it and laugh it off, or they sweep it under the carpet, it is the 3rd wave that has caused the rise in MRA groups like MGTOW because many men are getting sick of it and being vilified and other crap, dont get me wrong there was one possitive thing the 3rd wave has brought and that is the sex possitive feminists but they dissasociate themselves with the rest of the 3rd wavers because the others are mostly radicals who are one sided about things.


It's amazing how crazy some feminists (I guess third wave, though I'm not sure how to tell the difference...) get when I say I don't call myself a feminist :/ The same ones who yelled at me for saying that also yelled at me for saying that not all men rape after one of them said they do... -_- (weirder is that they're all men!! o.O What's that tell you??)


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01 Sep 2015, 10:05 pm

kamiyu910 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
I support 2nd wave feminism, but I think 3rd wave feminism is ridiculous. The way I see things, men and women are different, but equal at the same time. Neither sex should have more or less power than the other; men and women both have their own strengths and weaknesses that need to be considered.

I will admit however that being male, I am not in the best position to understand debate on women's issues. It's hard for me to understand what being female is like, because I'm simply not. I may have a feminine side, but that's not at all the same thing.
I agree, which is why I identify as a humanist egalitarian and not a femenist. Its a no brainer women suffer oppression and discrimination, its not as bad in the western world as it is in the middle east though and other countires and they need it the most, however when the same situations happen to men the 3rd wavers ignore it and laugh it off, or they sweep it under the carpet, it is the 3rd wave that has caused the rise in MRA groups like MGTOW because many men are getting sick of it and being vilified and other crap, dont get me wrong there was one possitive thing the 3rd wave has brought and that is the sex possitive feminists but they dissasociate themselves with the rest of the 3rd wavers because the others are mostly radicals who are one sided about things.


It's amazing how crazy some feminists (I guess third wave, though I'm not sure how to tell the difference...) get when I say I don't call myself a feminist :/ The same ones who yelled at me for saying that also yelled at me for saying that not all men rape after one of them said they do... -_- (weirder is that they're all men!! o.O What's that tell you??)
They are no longer for equality and are sexist and bigoted themselves be a humanist if you want equality not a feminist anymore, feminism is exclusive and to women only now adays and has lost its cause and as resorted to 3rd wavers with their double standards and generalizing men and ignoring mens issues yet claim to be for gender equality? That is a lie. I as a humanist see both genders face oppression and recognize it and do not ignore it I represent true equality. We are all human beings and should not oppress vilify one another let alone rape another it is common sense ffs!


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01 Sep 2015, 10:56 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
kamiyu910 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
I support 2nd wave feminism, but I think 3rd wave feminism is ridiculous. The way I see things, men and women are different, but equal at the same time. Neither sex should have more or less power than the other; men and women both have their own strengths and weaknesses that need to be considered.

I will admit however that being male, I am not in the best position to understand debate on women's issues. It's hard for me to understand what being female is like, because I'm simply not. I may have a feminine side, but that's not at all the same thing.
I agree, which is why I identify as a humanist egalitarian and not a femenist. Its a no brainer women suffer oppression and discrimination, its not as bad in the western world as it is in the middle east though and other countires and they need it the most, however when the same situations happen to men the 3rd wavers ignore it and laugh it off, or they sweep it under the carpet, it is the 3rd wave that has caused the rise in MRA groups like MGTOW because many men are getting sick of it and being vilified and other crap, dont get me wrong there was one possitive thing the 3rd wave has brought and that is the sex possitive feminists but they dissasociate themselves with the rest of the 3rd wavers because the others are mostly radicals who are one sided about things.


It's amazing how crazy some feminists (I guess third wave, though I'm not sure how to tell the difference...) get when I say I don't call myself a feminist :/ The same ones who yelled at me for saying that also yelled at me for saying that not all men rape after one of them said they do... -_- (weirder is that they're all men!! o.O What's that tell you??)
They are no longer for equality and are sexist and bigoted themselves be a humanist if you want equality not a feminist anymore, feminism is exclusive and to women only now adays and has lost its cause and as resorted to 3rd wavers with their double standards and generalizing men and ignoring mens issues yet claim to be for gender equality? That is a lie. I as a humanist see both genders face oppression and recognize it and do not ignore it I represent true equality. We are all human beings and should not oppress vilify one another let alone rape another it is common sense ffs!


As is said, common sense is not so common.
I was attacked by a group, who seemed convinced I was some raving MRA, because I posted some studies from the 1980's I found interesting that showed that women were more violent than men... :/ I like information, but I guess some people consider some information as evil because it doesn't fit their narrative?
I keep having people tell me no one likes those who don't pick sides, who stay in the middle, but I like looking at all the sides and all the views... it's like a giant puzzle to me


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01 Sep 2015, 11:12 pm

kamiyu910 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
kamiyu910 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
I support 2nd wave feminism, but I think 3rd wave feminism is ridiculous. The way I see things, men and women are different, but equal at the same time. Neither sex should have more or less power than the other; men and women both have their own strengths and weaknesses that need to be considered.

I will admit however that being male, I am not in the best position to understand debate on women's issues. It's hard for me to understand what being female is like, because I'm simply not. I may have a feminine side, but that's not at all the same thing.
I agree, which is why I identify as a humanist egalitarian and not a femenist. Its a no brainer women suffer oppression and discrimination, its not as bad in the western world as it is in the middle east though and other countires and they need it the most, however when the same situations happen to men the 3rd wavers ignore it and laugh it off, or they sweep it under the carpet, it is the 3rd wave that has caused the rise in MRA groups like MGTOW because many men are getting sick of it and being vilified and other crap, dont get me wrong there was one possitive thing the 3rd wave has brought and that is the sex possitive feminists but they dissasociate themselves with the rest of the 3rd wavers because the others are mostly radicals who are one sided about things.


It's amazing how crazy some feminists (I guess third wave, though I'm not sure how to tell the difference...) get when I say I don't call myself a feminist :/ The same ones who yelled at me for saying that also yelled at me for saying that not all men rape after one of them said they do... -_- (weirder is that they're all men!! o.O What's that tell you??)
They are no longer for equality and are sexist and bigoted themselves be a humanist if you want equality not a feminist anymore, feminism is exclusive and to women only now adays and has lost its cause and as resorted to 3rde wavers with their double standards and generalizing men and ignoring mens issues yet claim to be for gender equality? That is a lie. I as a humanist see both genders face oppression and recognize it and do not ignore it I represent true equality. We are all human beings and should not oppress vilify one another let alone rape another it is common sense ffs!


As is said, common sense is not so common.
I was attacked by a group, who seemed convinced I was some raving MRA, because I posted some studies from the 1980's I found interesting that showed that women were more violent than men... :/ I like information, but I guess some people consider some information as evil because it doesn't fit their narrative?
I keep having people tell me no one likes those who don't pick sides, who stay in the middle, but I like looking at all the sides and all the views... it's like a giant puzzle to me
They are morons and support oppression against peope, they are the same morons who support Anita Sarkisian with her lack of logic whining about women being damsels in distress in video games and yet failing to see there are less female video game developers because of the fact not as many women are interested in developing video games regardless of the fact that they are equally capable of developing video games it is just that not as many are interested. As for the female gamers they dont give a s**t and just want to play and have fun and own guys in call of duty and halo and teabag em online. They just like us guy gamers dont care for politics and such of over exagerated whiners and just want to play and have fun. As for Anita stfu stop being whiny and a professional victim and being a ret*d and pull yourself together and encourage more women to be video game developers that is all, otherwise your making a fool out of yourself!


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01 Sep 2015, 11:36 pm

Sarkisian is misunderstood.

She's just a pedantic person engaging in boring literary-style criticism.

That happens to enrage people and make her famous, which she seems to have figured out how to earn a living off of.



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01 Sep 2015, 11:49 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
kamiyu910 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
kamiyu910 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
I support 2nd wave feminism, but I think 3rd wave feminism is ridiculous. The way I see things, men and women are different, but equal at the same time. Neither sex should have more or less power than the other; men and women both have their own strengths and weaknesses that need to be considered.

I will admit however that being male, I am not in the best position to understand debate on women's issues. It's hard for me to understand what being female is like, because I'm simply not. I may have a feminine side, but that's not at all the same thing.
I agree, which is why I identify as a humanist egalitarian and not a femenist. Its a no brainer women suffer oppression and discrimination, its not as bad in the western world as it is in the middle east though and other countires and they need it the most, however when the same situations happen to men the 3rd wavers ignore it and laugh it off, or they sweep it under the carpet, it is the 3rd wave that has caused the rise in MRA groups like MGTOW because many men are getting sick of it and being vilified and other crap, dont get me wrong there was one possitive thing the 3rd wave has brought and that is the sex possitive feminists but they dissasociate themselves with the rest of the 3rd wavers because the others are mostly radicals who are one sided about things.


It's amazing how crazy some feminists (I guess third wave, though I'm not sure how to tell the difference...) get when I say I don't call myself a feminist :/ The same ones who yelled at me for saying that also yelled at me for saying that not all men rape after one of them said they do... -_- (weirder is that they're all men!! o.O What's that tell you??)
They are no longer for equality and are sexist and bigoted themselves be a humanist if you want equality not a feminist anymore, feminism is exclusive and to women only now adays and has lost its cause and as resorted to 3rde wavers with their double standards and generalizing men and ignoring mens issues yet claim to be for gender equality? That is a lie. I as a humanist see both genders face oppression and recognize it and do not ignore it I represent true equality. We are all human beings and should not oppress vilify one another let alone rape another it is common sense ffs!


As is said, common sense is not so common.
I was attacked by a group, who seemed convinced I was some raving MRA, because I posted some studies from the 1980's I found interesting that showed that women were more violent than men... :/ I like information, but I guess some people consider some information as evil because it doesn't fit their narrative?
I keep having people tell me no one likes those who don't pick sides, who stay in the middle, but I like looking at all the sides and all the views... it's like a giant puzzle to me
They are morons and support oppression against peope, they are the same morons who support Anita Sarkisian with her lack of logic whining about women being damsels in distress in video games and yet failing to see there are less female video game developers because of the fact not as many women are interested in developing video games regardless of the fact that they are equally capable of developing video games it is just that not as many are interested. As for the female gamers they dont give a s**t and just want to play and have fun and own guys in call of duty and halo and teabag em online. They just like us guy gamers dont care for politics and such of over exagerated whiners and just want to play and have fun. As for Anita stfu stop being whiny and a professional victim and being a ret*d and pull yourself together and encourage more women to be video game developers that is all, otherwise your making a fool out of yourself!


Sarkeesian doesn't even play games. She's an embarrassment. I have been playing video games for 25 years, loved playing Unreal, and then Unreal Tournament, and other FPSs, as well as RPG types like the Ultima series. My husband is into arcade tournament fighting and has built his own sticks for it and we both went to a tournament this past weekend. There is no gender there, just gamers, and if there is a divide, it's between the casuals and pros (although there is some joking about waifus/husbandos - the people who accompany their significant other but aren't gamers themselves)
There will always be people throwing whatever insult they can think of during an online match, especially if they're losing. There always will be.

I read somewhere that there was some competition aiming to get more women into the gaming industry, but people like Sarkeesian tried to shut it down because of who was running it, claiming it was sexist. And yet it was 4chan who came and funded it. It's so backwards...


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