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Vegeta1
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16 Sep 2015, 11:32 pm

This is an idea I was introduced through listening to the rappers Eyedea and Kristoff Krane. In many of their songs (especially Eyedea's), they talk about an idea that every single thing in the universe is related and that nothing is isolated. I do not know what this view/school is called, or if it even has a name (if it does, then I would appreciate someone informing me), but for someone that often felt disconnected from the world for obvious reasons this viewpoint was interesting to me and is something I have come to agree with. Do others on here share this with me, or does it sound like nonsense?


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RhodyStruggle
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17 Sep 2015, 1:33 am

I believe the idea you are getting at is some variety of monism. I myself tend toward existence monism.


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19 Sep 2015, 1:18 pm

Vegeta1 wrote:
This is an idea I was introduced through listening to the rappers Eyedea and Kristoff Krane. In many of their songs (especially Eyedea's), they talk about an idea that every single thing in the universe is related and that nothing is isolated. I do not know what this view/school is called, or if it even has a name (if it does, then I would appreciate someone informing me), but for someone that often felt disconnected from the world for obvious reasons this viewpoint was interesting to me and is something I have come to agree with. Do others on here share this with me, or does it sound like nonsense?


Does anyone deny that all of existence is interdependent?
Sciences such as Physics, Astronomy, Ecology, even Maths show the relationships very clearly.



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19 Sep 2015, 1:25 pm

Interdependent (adj.): 1. mutually dependent; depending on each other.

Under this definition, an event in one location affects everything else in the Universe.

Neat idea. Try to prove it.

For instance, I just dropped a fork in my kitchen. How did it affect you?



Nathaniel75
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20 Sep 2015, 3:16 am

Fnord wrote:
Interdependent (adj.): 1. mutually dependent; depending on each other.

Under this definition, an event in one location affects everything else in the Universe.

Neat idea. Try to prove it.

For instance, I just dropped a fork in my kitchen. How did it affect you?


Scientifically speaking, everything affects literally everything else. The current understanding of gravity suggests that every speck of matter exerts gravitational attraction on every other speck of matter... just not very much. There are probably more examples of this that a physicist could tell us about.

Philosophically speaking, I believe we are much more connected than most realize. The Earth is a complicated system of moving parts, some of which are alive. I submit that "individuals" are not really as individual as we think - we are part of a much larger society. Humans are to humanity as cells are to humans - capable of limited functionality independently but capable of significantly more as a unified group.



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20 Sep 2015, 6:56 am

Nathaniel75 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Interdependent (adj.): 1. mutually dependent; depending on each other. Under this definition, an event in one location affects everything else in the Universe. Neat idea. Try to prove it. For instance, I just dropped a fork in my kitchen. How did it affect you?
Scientifically speaking, everything affects literally everything else. The current understanding of gravity suggests that every speck of matter exerts gravitational attraction on every other speck of matter... just not very much. There are probably more examples of this that a physicist could tell us about. Philosophically speaking, I believe we are much more connected than most realize. The Earth is a complicated system of moving parts, some of which are alive. I submit that "individuals" are not really as individual as we think - we are part of a much larger society. Humans are to humanity as cells are to humans - capable of limited functionality independently but capable of significantly more as a unified group.
You are evading my question, which I will repeat here:

I just dropped a fork in my kitchen. How did it affect you?



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20 Sep 2015, 7:42 am

slave wrote:
Does anyone deny that all of existence is interdependent?
Sciences such as Physics, Astronomy, Ecology, even Maths show the relationships very clearly.


i believe that all existence is interactive, but not all of it is interdependent.
there are dependencies and "providences" that are not interdependent among many other examples.
some things exist as a result of, or as an evolution from an inspirator, but their inspirator is not itself dependent on it's own dependents like as in a symbiotic relationship (or sym-whatever that is equivalent in the non biological construct).

i do however think that every manifestation of the universe, whether it be densely bound energy(matter), or rarefied energy that is spatially fluent, or even the existence of a different dimension which is composed of only the possibilities for the various behaviour's that lower dimensional manifestations exhibit...etc..every aspect of every existence is influential to every other aspect of every existence.

some people may like to compartmentalize aspects of universal existence by proposing that separate and entirely unrelated universes concurrently exist, but if they concurrently exist, then they share the dimensions of time that they coexist in, which is part of the greater universe.

if they are able to collide as their "perimeters" or branes come into the same location, then they share the dimension of space that they coexist in, which is a subset of the single greater universe.

if as a result of these collisions, energy is liberated and expressed in either of those "separate" universes, then their energy contents are interchangeable and therefore governed by the same rules of physics, which is part of the greater universe.

i do not think that anything in the entirety of existence (even things that are no longer, or not yet happening) is entirely divorced from anything else that is also in the entirety of existence, and as such, in a way, one could say that every iota of reality (past present and future) is aware of every iota of reality and is influenced by it no matter how exceedingly slightly.
inter dependencies certainly occur but they are a not a fundamental element in the composition of the fabric of reality i believe.

but that is just my verbal summary of my opinion regarding the matter.



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20 Sep 2015, 8:51 am

Quote:
I just dropped a fork in my kitchen. How did it affect you?


That is avoiding the point of the qusetion. I not even sure it was meant to talk about the butterfly flapping its wings can cause a hurricane in another part of the world. During my younger years I felt this same aloneness, even in a crowd. I would walk the streets and see the buildings wanting to be a part of what was going on inside. I desperately needed a feeling of being connected to people and society at large. I also wanted a connectedness to the landscape if you can imagine that.

Now I have that sense to a much greater degree. Is it just a spiritual thing, the idea that God is everything and I am connected to God> I will say not directly. I think the connectedness can come from a healing. I can claim this as a Christian, but I'll listen to what Buddhists for example have to say about it.



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20 Sep 2015, 9:02 am

Grebels wrote:
Quote:
I just dropped a fork in my kitchen. How did it affect you?
That is avoiding the point of the qusetion. I not even sure it was meant to talk about the butterfly flapping its wings can cause a hurricane in another part of the world ...
That is the point - IF we're all interconnected, then my actions in my home will cause an effect on someone else in their home.

(Ignoring, of course, ringing someone up on the telephone.)

The only interconnectedness I see is either technological (teh Interwebz), environmental (I exhale, the person next to me inhales), or biological (human sexual reproduction).

Anything beyond that seems purely speculative and subject to a person's internal feelings and emotional state.



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20 Sep 2015, 10:46 am

If we imagine a network, a force field, say something like gravity then you know it depends on how big the fork is and the distance. I did hear about somebody who measured the energy fields from prayer and meditation. I suppose this could be put down to the power of an ordinary mind. Whatever, if you are looking for actual events as a result then I have to say sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Thats not exactly offering any kind of proof.

Chi energy does take some explaining. O once walked past a Chinese medical shop where there was a man inside doing Tai Chi. I felt the power. I didn't like it much, but couldn't deny it. I once went to a Kung Fu class where the great master grabbed me to demonstrate this awesome power. He would put his hands out to me and I would, he said, fall over. I didn't fall, sorry not to oblige. He was furious. Yet Kung Fu experts do make this work, however. Then I suppose its possible to find a logical explantion for almost anything if you try hard enough.



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20 Sep 2015, 11:28 am

Grebels wrote:
If we imagine ...
Imagination does not make things real.

Your premise fails in the first three words.



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20 Sep 2015, 1:12 pm

Quote:
Imagination does not make things real.

Your premise fails in the first three words.


Yes, but I acn't think of anything better.



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20 Sep 2015, 1:56 pm

Most religions believe that all existence is interdependent, although not in the more literal sense of Fnord and his fork. But whether or not this is true, - and I believe it is - it has the salutary effect of reminding us that everything we say, do and even think has an effect on the rest of the world in some way; that we should reflect on the possible outcome of our behaviour.

On the subject of Fnord and his fork, by posting about it here this small incident has now had quite an effect on perhaps a lot of people. Every time I read a post of Fnord's in future (and there are a lot of these), I will now think of him dropping his fork, the sort of fork it is, what sort of noise it made as it hit the floor, did he swear, did it mark the floor, what sort of floor is it, did he wash it afterwards, does he often drop things, is he getting clumsy in his old age, would he like a new set of forks for Christmas etc etc...

So actually Fnord and his fork have made quite an impact. Who says we're not all interdependent?

BTW, maybe Fnord could post a photo of his fork, it would put my mind at rest ...