Should we eliminate all aversive experiences

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Should we establish gradients of bliss for all humanity
Yes: Bliss will spur us all on to seek out new experiences and make human connections 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Yes: I simply want to avoid pain as I find the prospect of any pain incredibly distressing 7%  7%  [ 1 ]
Yes: I want orgasmic peak experiences! 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
No: Pain is necessary and drives human evolution 36%  36%  [ 5 ]
No: It will be used as governmental control 29%  29%  [ 4 ]
No: We will become blissed out automatons 29%  29%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 14

GoonSquad
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22 Dec 2013, 8:10 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
binaryodes wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
Another inevitable downside... young men in particular would be more likely to pick fights with each other or get into conflict situations that would result in physical injury to themselves and other people. If a huge brute of a doorman refuses entry to a nightclub to a young man, that young man is more likely to get into a fight with the doorman if he's not going to feel any pain. He's also not going to feel any pain either while he's laying in his hospital bed with broken ribs and be more likely to repeat the action again.
]
Why would the young man attack the doorman if he able of emotional pain? The attack would usually be instigated by feelings of frustration and thwarted expectation


I was just going to say, why would people fight if they were incapable of feeling negative emotions?


That's not possible thanks to hedonic adaptation. No matter how much 'bliss' you get, eventually it won't be enough... unless you're envisioning some kind of blissful lobotomy.

Once again, no, thanks. :?


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UndeadToaster
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22 Dec 2013, 8:23 pm

Is it not likely that the bliss on the low end of the gradient would eventually become just as undesirable as pain/depression/etc is for us now?



binaryodes
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23 Dec 2013, 8:32 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
If there is any "value" in suffering, it is the fact that we most appreciate the good things in life when we are reminded what it's like when things are bad.


For some of us the bad times outweigh the good times by a factor of 10. I find myself unable to appreciate the good in life as im currently in a state of constant emotional agony. Suffering doesnt ennoble the human condition for the most part it renders us incapable of responding nobly.

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A life of bliss would soon result in a catatonic world where we have no frame of reference. If suffering and happiness was on a scale from -10 to +10 and 0 being the average, a life of artificial +10 would soon become the new 0. With nothing to compare and contrast, we'd be incapable of rating anything above 0.


Pain is aversive - biologically so. Pain and pleasure are also largely discrete in that there can be no mistaking the 2. The point of this sort of hedonic wiretapping is that we simulate dynamic, stimulating and most importantly enervating bliss such that we'd feel motivated to do and seek out new things and not to wallow. What you're describingis the hedonic treadmill and the point of this thought experiment is to abolish it.

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More so, our ability to adapt and overcome derives from experiencing pain. Never have pain? You'll stop applying adaptation skills. Worse is that if you are in constant bliss because of some device or drug, what happens if it stops working? You've long since lost the ability to cope and adapt to adversity.


Gradients of bliss can be equally instructive. We'd seek out reward in the form of ever increasing levels of happiness. This would become our new adaptive norm.


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CoolFuturist1
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13 Feb 2016, 4:36 pm

We need sadness. Without sadness, we can't tell what's wrong with a situation. If they genetically modify people with The Hedonistic Imperative, then we'll be in a world full of people with hyperthymic sociopathy and extreme narcissism(people who screw others over all the time for their sick enjoyment). Having someone be extremely happy even when seeing a group of people smashing cars with bats and even cheering them on in the collective destruction of property and society will be extremely stupid. Also, there's the paradox of hedonism. It would be more effective to reduce suffering another way. Reducing sadness is just dumb. Reducing fear would be a far more effective method to reducing suffering. If fear is substantially reduced, then we can make more logical and rational decisions about the present and future. Suffering will lose most of it's pain and become neosuffering, and only have around 10% of the pain of regular suffering. We will still tell when things go wrong, but it will not scare us into obeying dystopian and illogical systems of power. Fear and corruption will be reduced dramatically and freedoms and choices maximized in new societies. The Hedonistic Imperative is bad. The Fearless Imperative is good.



mr_bigmouth_502
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13 Feb 2016, 9:19 pm

I'm starting to think that maybe I would enjoy a brain implant that would make me feel blissful at all times. Unfortunately the human brain has a tendency of righting itself and becoming resistant to such things, so they would have to work around that. This is why people come down from psychoactive drugs and develop a tolerance to them.


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