If there was really a God, bad things wouldn't happen.

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Adamantium
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26 Jan 2017, 2:57 pm

androbot01 wrote:

Adamantium wrote:

What do you mean when you say God?

Well, I know there is something going on that is greater than humans, but I don't really understand it. I guess I see God as the organizing force of the universe. But again, it is hard to understand something that is greater than yourself.

It is, isn't it?

"I don't really understand it" seems like one of the most honest things that can be said about it.

Why do you believe that it's there at all? Some sense or experience? An intuition?

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androbot01
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26 Jan 2017, 3:01 pm

Adamantium wrote:

Why do you believe that it's there at all? Some sense or experience? An intuition?

Not intuition, more from experience. Seeing things happen a certain way without understanding the mechanics. I am a big believer in karma, which I have seen in action and experienced many times.

adifferentname
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26 Jan 2017, 3:38 pm

androbot01 wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

It's quite ridiculous to suggest that one cannot judge a god in human terms, whilst doing precisely the same thing by defining what a god is.

Can you quote where I defined what God is, I'd love to know.

That was actually meant as a general statement, as the notion is a commonly employed 'defence' against criticism of scripture or belief.

That said, you did define "God" as being above human morality. You also chose to capitalise "God", which is a human convention for proper nouns.

androbot01 wrote:

Good and evil are human terms to define our concept of morality. God is above such things.

You also defined "God" as something which evil has nothing to do with, in your response to Adamantium.

Describing the shape of the water it displaces is still defining the object.

Why don't you try adding something to the conversation instead of analyzing possible interpretations of previous posts ad nauseam.

I'm offering my interpretation and thoughts, as well as (as Adamantium correctly pointed out) providing context to the process. I contend that responding to a direct request with an honest answer more than sufficiently qualifies as "adding something to the conversation", regardless of any objection you may have to my participation.

I also raised my objections to the notion that free will can coincide with an omniscient being (which has serious ramifications regarding human morality) way back on page 2. You were there too. I'm surprised you didn't notice.

Finally, I object to your characterisation of my response as "analyzing possible interpretations of previous posts ad nauseum". Let me assure you that there are myriad ways in which I might have interpreted your post. However, I went with the default "literally", as is my wont. Complaining about literal interpretation of text on a forum populated by people with ASDs would be a spectacular waste of time.

Adamantium wrote:

"I don't really understand it" seems like one of the most honest things that can be said about it.

Agreed.

jrjones9933
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26 Jan 2017, 4:09 pm

Defining god as "something I can't understand" is about as far as I can get too, if I'm honest. I just try to look around and figure out if there's some intelligence in the stuff that doesn't get explained.

How I relate to that idea matters, and this may hint at the psychological mechanism of religion in general. If I critically examine things, more gets explained, less room for god. If I get caught up in an experience and try to interact with that seeming intelligence, less gets explained and I have more room for god.

I have no problem with being an agnostic gnostic, although some people will call it impossible.

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adifferentname
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26 Jan 2017, 4:18 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

I have no problem with being an agnostic gnostic, although some people will call it impossible.

Are you going with "I know what I don't know" or "I don't know what I know"? Or is it more akin to "I know that I don't know what I can't know"?

It's certainly linguistically possible. :lol:

Adamantium
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26 Jan 2017, 4:32 pm

adifferentname wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

I have no problem with being an agnostic gnostic, although some people will call it impossible.

Are you going with "I know what I don't know" or "I don't know what I know"? Or is it more akin to "I know that I don't know what I can't know"?

It's certainly linguistically possible. :lol:

Shades of Donald Rumsfeld there.

I was thinking it was more along the lines of "I am certain that I know something, but I don't know exactly what it is"

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adifferentname
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26 Jan 2017, 4:40 pm

Adamantium wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

I have no problem with being an agnostic gnostic, although some people will call it impossible.

Are you going with "I know what I don't know" or "I don't know what I know"? Or is it more akin to "I know that I don't know what I can't know"?

It's certainly linguistically possible. :lol:

Shades of Donald Rumsfeld there.

I was thinking it was more along the lines of "I am certain that I know something, but I don't know exactly what it is"

I think jr might have been referring to the Socratic Paradox, but yours is certainly a logical interpretation.

jrjones9933
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26 Jan 2017, 6:02 pm

adifferentname wrote:

Adamantium wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

I have no problem with being an agnostic gnostic, although some people will call it impossible.

Are you going with "I know what I don't know" or "I don't know what I know"? Or is it more akin to "I know that I don't know what I can't know"?

It's certainly linguistically possible. :lol:

Shades of Donald Rumsfeld there.

I was thinking it was more along the lines of "I am certain that I know something, but I don't know exactly what it is"

I think jr might have been referring to the Socratic Paradox, but yours is certainly a logical interpretation.

I don't know god directly, yet, and haven't obtained satisfactory proof of god's nature, but I do intend to.
I think it's fair that the gnostic part is aspirational, since imo the title of christian is aspirational at best, and likewise with other religions except perhaps pastafarianism.

Also

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androbot01
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26 Jan 2017, 9:53 pm

adifferentname wrote:

... regardless of any objection you may have to my participation.

On the contrary, I enjoy your participation.

adifferentname wrote:

I also raised my objections to the notion that free will can coincide with an omniscient being (which has serious ramifications regarding human morality) way back on page 2. You were there too. I'm surprised you didn't notice.

My conflict regarding free will comes into play with regard to biochemistry. Being on medications which have changed my interpretation of things has made me wonder.

adifferentname wrote:

Complaining about literal interpretation of text on a forum populated by people with ASDs would be a spectacular waste of time.

I know, but I'm becoming a cranky old woman.

kraftiekortie
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26 Jan 2017, 10:00 pm

You're 10 years younger than me!

I believe, pretty much, in free will.

DelightDelirium
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27 Jan 2017, 12:27 am

The Gnostics blamed the evil in the world on the Demiurge, a false god, identified with the God of the OT, who was not the True God at all, but just pretending to be, and a nasty entity in control of the material world. The Gnostics make alot of sense, esp. in their critique of Yahweh.

Yo El
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27 Jan 2017, 2:32 am

DelightDelirium wrote:

If you don't believe in the Old Testament you can't believe in the New Testament. If you don't believe in the Father from the Old Testament you also don't believe in Jesus.

John 14:9 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” 9Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, carrying out His work. 11Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me — or at least believe because of the works themselves.

John 12: 44Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in Me does not believe in Me alone, but in the One who sent Me. 45And whoever sees Me sees the One who sent Me.

If you think the God of the old testament is a false God you also don't believe in Jesus Christ.

jrjones9933
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27 Jan 2017, 2:37 am

Axiomatically, if you reject the new testament, you don't believe it.

I like the Gospel of Mary. Why did the jerkwads in the Council of Nicea leave it out?

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Yo El
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27 Jan 2017, 2:39 am

jrjones9933 wrote:

Axiomatically, if you reject the new testament, you don't believe it.

Agreed

jrjones9933
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27 Jan 2017, 2:42 am

I thought the other half was the best part.

I'm sorry if that was harsh. Sometimes people use what's in the bible to explain why I have to believe in it and I had a flashback. I'm just asking, what about the other testimony? The only eye witness testimony.

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adifferentname
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27 Jan 2017, 3:29 am

androbot01 wrote:

On the contrary, I enjoy your participation.

Thanks. That's genuinely good to know.

Quote:

My conflict regarding free will comes into play with regard to biochemistry. Being on medications which have changed my interpretation of things has made me wonder.

I'm still waiting to see how this whole quantum decision-making thing plays out. Sadly I doubt they'll present anything that we can make sense of within my lifetime.

Quote:

I know, but I'm becoming a cranky old woman.

Save me a window seat in the WP retirement home. A few more years of parenting and I'll be right there with you. :lol:

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