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AngelRho
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26 Jun 2017, 9:59 pm

Pepe wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Pepe wrote:
adifferentname wrote:

It's really not. The bare basics of neurology as a response to stimuli explains the drive to procreate. Sure, you could frame it in terms of social pressures, add psychological nuance and a thousand other contextual arguments which revolve around morality, culture, and so on, but we're really not all that different from other primates when it comes to sex, sexuality, sensuality, etc.

People want kids because we're hardwired to seek out and enjoy the activity which leads to having kids.

We justify it to ourselves with semantic platitudes that fit into our perceptual social construct, but it's simply part of our "programming".


God I luv what people say on this website...

Totally agree with you (on NT forums I think it against the rules of conduct to do so)...
Well almost...

However... :P
I would like to point out that these days pregnancy is almost exclusively optional...
Hence, the sex isn't the cause of having kids...well mostly...

Having children is more to do with culture, love dissociation, having someone to look after you and keep you company in old age, etc...
A large aspect of having children is also the component of stupidity/laziness...
Based on surveys in the past, roughly one third of children are born through accidents...

Oy vey!
30 seconds of pleasure...
30 years of pain... :mrgreen:

2/3 of my kids were accidents. #1 on purpose, #2 bad timing, #3 condom broke.

We're giving serious thought to #4.


Why are you in my face? <chuckle>
What are you saying?
I can speculate but I'd prefer you say what you mean and mean what you say... :wink:

kraftiekortie wrote:
I do believe people, at times, have "noble" reasons for having kids.

I'm not one of them. I never had kids simply because I never felt mature enough to take care of a child. I rather regret that I've never had children. It's weird knowing people my age who are grandparents.


If it will make you feel better, I'm open to the idea of my being adopted...
Should I call you daddy or pops? :mrgreen:

Haha! I said exactly what I meant. We're thinking about having a 4th kid. Deliberately this time. That will be 2 intentional kids to 2 "happy little accidents." I can live with that. lol



tern
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27 Jun 2017, 10:25 am

I don't want kids, because of: cancer, muscular dystrophy, premature birth, stillbirth, birth with deficient vital organs,, murder, abduction, paedos, big dogs, household accidents, waterside accidents, road accidents, and if all those chances don't happen, the ecological crisis looming in their lifetime.



kraftiekortie
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27 Jun 2017, 11:12 am

Odds are, all of these things you mentioned aren't going to happen.

The "ecological crisis" is preventable.



tern
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27 Jun 2017, 12:54 pm

"That won't happen to me." A wishful emotion that many survivors of medical emergencies or disabling accidents admit they had thought until it did happen to them.

The odds are not zero. If any of them happen, as well as the injustice for the actual kid; everyone who has ever done anything nasty to me and has not had a tragedy happen to any of their kids would score a life victory over me.



seaweed
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27 Jun 2017, 12:58 pm

if i had stable resources and a life partner, and i had enough years under my belt of living my own life, i would want to give myself to a new life. idealistically, i would want to adopt an autistic kid because i could provide them with understanding and acceptance and my own life's knowledge. if i had a biological kid there would be a good chance they would be autistic and it feels natural to me to want to nurture those with cognitive functions like my own.

but realistically, don't know if adoption process allows those diagnosed with autism to adopt, and if having mental illness diagnoses as well can impede that. there are probably a lot of strict eligibility questions. i haven't done any research as of yet because the possibility of a family/adoption is not visible anywhere in my near future, i just see that people love to exalt adoption as the ultimate Right Decision but its actually far more complicated than perhaps it should be.

the biological desire to create and raise a new life from one's own material, and/or from the material of one's partner, is powerful stuff. i certainly don't blame anyone for being human and having biological children.
and for the record, being interested in adoption doesn't mean i'm on the gloom&doom boat.



Pepe
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27 Jun 2017, 9:57 pm

seaweed wrote:
the biological desire to create and raise a new life from one's own material, and/or from the material of one's partner, is powerful stuff. i certainly don't blame anyone for being human and having biological children.
and for the record, being interested in adoption doesn't mean i'm on the gloom&doom boat.


Does one believe there is some inherent meaning to life?
If not, bringing a child into this life system is rather selfish, imo...
Understandable and very human...but hardly a rational decision apart from some sort of personal gain component...

If one does believe in some inherent meaning to life, I suggest one should Google the definition of "dissociation"... :P

Is one comfortable with the concept that all species are simply a product of the evolutionary process which only exists to continue the process of reproduction?
("The selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins...)
No reproduction...
No evolutionary process... :mrgreen:
Simples...

Is one comfortable with the concept that all our instinctual urges are simply programmed into us?
That we are driven into certain behaviours purely due to genetic coding...
Contrary to popular belief, there is no absolute free will, particularly at this level of our consideration...

Overwhelmingly, most people have a desperation of clinging to life...
An important evolutionary quirk which rewarded mutations with this characteristic through greater survival and reproduction rates...
Damn you to oblivion, you evolutionary cold hearted mindless self serving muva... :mrgreen:

Over the years I asked people if, given the choice, they would like to be reborn and live their life over again...
To date I have only found one person who answered: no-way-jose!
Oy vey!



seaweed
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28 Jun 2017, 7:48 am

Pepe wrote:
Does one believe there is some inherent meaning to life?


the meaning of life is to give life meaning. or as pablo puts it, the meaning is to find your gift and then the purpose is to give it away. i don't have claim on anyone else's meaning or purpose.



Pepe
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28 Jun 2017, 9:18 am

seaweed wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Does one believe there is some inherent meaning to life?


the meaning of life is to give life meaning. or as pablo puts it, the meaning is to find your gift and then the purpose is to give it away. i don't have claim on anyone else's meaning or purpose.


Self actualisation...I embrace thee...
Personal existentialism...I define thee...
Yet this mystical construct of all encompassing meaning of life, the universe...and everything...I reject thee!

Begone yon defiler of the reality!
Thou hath not power over this guardian of the Truth!

<bow>
<exit stage left>



T2
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28 Jun 2017, 9:33 am

It's the forces of nature. If you feel the force then have kids. If you don't feel the force, don't have kids. We never planned to have kids. Then after some years together the forces of nature prevailed. Then you just get on with it. Repeat, you just get on with it. Some of it you enjoy. Some of it drives you absolutely and totally nuts! Everyone said it would change me. WRONG! I'm still the same Aspie, but with a kid who's fab and possible just like me....... he constantly lines things up :? I'm a very functional father. My partner handles all the kids social stuff. I dread going to the park, swimming, soft play etc.
It can be tough, but so can my whole life. I retreat to my shed when i have to.



seaweed
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28 Jun 2017, 9:42 am

Pepe wrote:
Self actualisation...I embrace thee...
Personal existentialism...I define thee...
Yet this mystical construct of all encompassing meaning of life, the universe...and everything...I reject thee!

Begone yon defiler of the reality!
Thou hath not power over this guardian of the Truth!

<bow>
<exit stage left>


bravo! *throws roses*

i'm not sure you've understood what i've said. i take personal responsibility for my own meaning and purpose but i have no claim on anyone else's. therefore, i too reject an all encompassing meaning of life. the universe. everything. there is nothing mystical to be mystified about.



Pepe
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28 Jun 2017, 8:14 pm

seaweed wrote:

bravo! *throws roses*

i'm not sure you've understood what i've said. i take personal responsibility for my own meaning and purpose but i have no claim on anyone else's. therefore, i too reject an all encompassing meaning of life. the universe. everything. there is nothing mystical to be mystified about.


You posted this previously:"the meaning of life is to give life meaning."
As a result I brought up 'personal existentialism'...
We are on the same wavelength here, I believe...

What I didn't fully understand was your Picasso quote: "or as pablo puts it, the meaning is to find your gift and then the purpose is to give it away."
WTF?... :mrgreen:

"...the meaning is to find your gift"...
I can relate to this in terms of 'self actualisation'...
"If you are a frog, be the best frog you can be..."

But then to: "...and then the purpose is to give it away."
We are obviously not in the same boat here... :?:
As Pauline Hanson would say:"Please explain?"... :wink:



alk123
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28 Jun 2017, 8:55 pm

MSBKyle wrote:
I am not here to persuade anyone to have kids or not to have kids. I am not judging anyone either. Everyone is free to make whatever decisions they want, but I just want to hear others' take on why they want to have kids. Let me say that I never want to have kids. First of all, I don't think I will ever be in a financial position to have any. Even if I am, I still wouldn't want any. Secondly, I never had a say in being born so I don't want to force life onto anyone else. Thirdly, I don't think I will ever fully mature enough to have kids. In order to have kids, you have to be very responsible and mature. I don't believe I ever will be. Having kids can cause a lot of stress and drain you financially. Your life revolves around that child, especially when they are really young. You can't work or leave your house unless you find a babysitter. I understand that babies and little kids are cute, but unfortunately, they are not that young for very long. They eventually grow up and are forced to go to school, get a job, and contribute to society. What I think more people should do is adopt. There are millions of hungry and homeless children out there who would love to be cared for by a loving family. By creating children of your own, you are using up resources and depriving a child who already exists a family. We should help children who already exist instead of creating more children to suffer.


I feel the exact same way. Especially in today's society.



seaweed
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01 Jul 2017, 4:08 pm

Pepe wrote:
seaweed wrote:

bravo! *throws roses*

i'm not sure you've understood what i've said. i take personal responsibility for my own meaning and purpose but i have no claim on anyone else's. therefore, i too reject an all encompassing meaning of life. the universe. everything. there is nothing mystical to be mystified about.


You posted this previously:"the meaning of life is to give life meaning."
As a result I brought up 'personal existentialism'...
We are on the same wavelength here, I believe...

What I didn't fully understand was your Picasso quote: "or as pablo puts it, the meaning is to find your gift and then the purpose is to give it away."
WTF?... :mrgreen:

"...the meaning is to find your gift"...
I can relate to this in terms of 'self actualisation'...
"If you are a frog, be the best frog you can be..."

But then to: "...and then the purpose is to give it away."
We are obviously not in the same boat here... :?:
As Pauline Hanson would say:"Please explain?"... :wink:


so you accept meaning but not purpose.
i can't accept or even fathom a grand purpose for humanity, but i do accept small-scale purpose. i don't have much power but i try to not sit back in apathetic cynicism.



Pepe
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01 Jul 2017, 8:47 pm

seaweed wrote:

so you accept meaning but not purpose.
i can't accept or even fathom a grand purpose for humanity, but i do accept small-scale purpose. i don't have much power but i try to not sit back in apathetic cynicism.


Could you explain the difference between "meaning" and "purpose"?

Do I believe in an inherent, intrinsic, quintessential meaning of life?
No...

Existentialism (the sort I am focusing on) is defining your own meaning of life in the absence of an absolute meaning of life...

"Existentialism is a philosophy that emphasizes individual existence, freedom and choice. It is the view that humans define their own meaning in life, and try to make rational decisions despite existing in an irrational universe. It focuses on the question of human existence, and the feeling that there is no purpose or explanation at the core of existence. It holds that, as there is no God or any other transcendent force, the only way to counter this nothingness (and hence to find meaning in life) is by embracing existence."
http://www.philosophybasics.com/branch_ ... alism.html

BTW, here is one of the porpoises of life:
Image