"Ask what you can do for your country" = slavery

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01 May 2019, 1:54 pm

JFK once said that (in)famous saying:

"Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country."

It seems to be a very popular saying around the world. You know what that means? I know what that means:

It means we should all be slaves for the state!

You - human beings - are born into this world not to have a good life, but to provide soldiers for the military and to provide wage slaves for the industries.

If you want happiness in this world, I suggest you go take it for yourself. Become a draft dodger. Leech on welfare benefits. That is the ONLY way to achieve the MEANING OF LIFE in this s**thole world!

Vote for political parties who want to implement Unconditional Basic Income (UBI) and abolish conscription (of all sorts - including any labor/work duty ie. alternatives to military service).

Patriots and nationalists alike: Go to HELL, and STAY THERE!

Last edited by thinkinginpictures on 01 May 2019, 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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01 May 2019, 2:04 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:

WRONG.

The government and the country are two different entities. Service and slavery are two different activities.

To serve the country means to preserve society, help the poor, preserve the landscape, and maintain the peace.

To serve the government is to keep it running smoothly.

Service is voluntary, from which you can un-volunteer yourself at any time..

Slavery is involuntary servitude, from which you can truly escape only through death.

I take it that you are not exactly a university graduate.

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thinkinginpictures
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01 May 2019, 2:14 pm

Fnord wrote:

thinkinginpictures wrote:

Ok, if you want to be pedantic, just replace "Government" with "State"/"Country".
And replace "slavery" in terms of conscription, with "forced labor".

ollychan
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01 May 2019, 3:18 pm

kids are not sending themselves to some big desert and came back home ending up jobless veteran and picking from zuck's garbage container (which probably contains more assets than our entire household ever owns) anymore. patriots can go to agrabah although judging from thr past thirty years of experiences nothing would be archieved except collateral damage and end up becoming a jobless veteran if they came back alive they would still end up picking from zuck's garbage container which probably contains more assets than the annual financial budget of the entire brooklyn. I mean the politicians and executives are not going there so why should anyone . kids want their monthly weed stamps therefore be able to enter their idealized fantasy world where they have sex with unicorn-centaurs on the stage of a rave concert by the sea in their heads.

Last edited by ollychan on 01 May 2019, 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

JonWood007
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01 May 2019, 3:25 pm

I never cared for this statement for similar reasons. It comes off as extremely jingoistic. To me, the purpose of society is to take care of its citizens. The government is the tool of the people, not the other way around, and as such we should be asking what the country (state) can do for us to make our lives better.

This isn't to say that there aren't things we should do for the country too, but tbqh the statement comes off as too authoritarian and jingoistic for my viewpoint. I believe the state should take care of its citizens. And while that requires work on our part to some degree (for example, national defense, tax dollars to fund programs), ultimately I have an opposite, contrary view to this statement.

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Fnord
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01 May 2019, 3:44 pm

JonWood007 wrote:

... To me, the purpose of society is to take care of its citizens. The government is the tool of the people, not the other way around, and as such we should be asking what the country (state) can do for us to make our lives better. This isn't to say that there aren't things we should do for the country too, but tbqh the statement comes off as too authoritarian and jingoistic for my viewpoint. I believe the state should take care of its citizens. And while that requires work on our part to some degree (for example, national defense, tax dollars to fund programs), ultimately I have an opposite, contrary view to this statement.

When JFK said these words, America's involvement in the Vietnam War was beginning to ramp up, and the Peace Corps (a puppet of the CIA) was only a year or two old. Of course JFK wanted more volunteers for his two favorite projects.

Still, I volunteered for military service because (1) I wanted to do something for my country in addition to than voting and paying taxes, and (2) I needed to restore my credit rating and credibility after an especially harsh downturn of events in my life.

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Drake
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01 May 2019, 4:07 pm

I'm not American and am not familiar with the history and context of the statement, but I have heard it before. I took it to mean if everyone is doing something for the country, then the country will be doing something for you. Basically another version of "one for all and all for one".

Pepe
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01 May 2019, 6:05 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:

Pretty much...

Pepe
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01 May 2019, 6:13 pm

Fnord wrote:

I take it that you are not exactly a university graduate.

I wasn't going to comment until you posted the above...

We have established you are an elitist...
Ad hominem attacks are embarrassingly proletariat from someone who is as educated and gifted as yourself, wouldn't you say?
What's up with that?... :mrgreen:

Pepe
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01 May 2019, 6:32 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:

Fnord wrote:

thinkinginpictures wrote:

Ok, if you want to be pedantic, just replace "Government" with "State"/"Country".
And replace "slavery" in terms of conscription, with "forced labor".

Don't be intimidated by him...
The gist of your message strikes a chord in me...
Ergo, it must have validity... :mrgreen:

As I have said in the past, every one of us is drafted kicking and screaming into this life system without our consent...
And despite the fact that none of us has signed a contract in blood to be indentured to social expectation, we are expected to conform to a largely insectoidal existence to overwhelmingly serve "the powers that be"...

"We the people" are a commodity to be used without regard by parasitical elements of the power base...
We are simple chess pieces to be manipulated without consideration of our human individuality...
And we are expected to eat the shite fed to us via propaganda disseminators a la 1984...

I thank you...<bow>
<steps down from the soapbox>
<exit stage centre> :mrgreen:

Pepe
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01 May 2019, 6:40 pm

Drake wrote:

Firstly: I believe the statement was created by JFK's ghostwriter, not JFK...

In essence, the statement was intended to counter an attitude of entitlement, a pervasive problem which is very much in existence these days...

Fnord
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01 May 2019, 6:46 pm

Pepe wrote:

Fnord wrote:

... I take it that you are not exactly a university graduate.

I wasn't going to comment until you posted the above... We have established you are an elitist... Ad hominem attacks are embarrassingly proletariat from someone who is as educated and gifted as yourself, wouldn't you say?

No.

Pepe wrote:

What's up with that?...

A person who has received a university education is likely to have studied American History within the appropriate context and understood JFK's quote for its intended purpose. Since the OP has completely misconstrued both the words and the meaning of the quote, is is an easy assumption to make that he is not a university graduate.

Sorta like assuming that someone has never participated in Drivers' Education after crashing the family car.

...

Voluntary service is not slavery, plain and simple. Any statement to the contrary is simply wrong.

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thinkinginpictures
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02 May 2019, 2:04 am

Fnord wrote:

Voluntary service is not slavery, plain and simple. Any statement to the contrary is simply wrong.

But the Vietnam War wasn't exactly fought by volunteers, was it? As I recall from history, America had the draft in place. A draft (conscription) means to put someone in prison if they refuse to do military service or any of the alternatives provided.

People should not be forced to do ANY kind of work for the state - be it military or alternative service.
They should be free to choose their jobs without fear of imprisonment.

Besides, I'm not an American. I live in Europe and in Europe forced labor is very common in many EU member states.

Work over here isn't exactly what you describe as "voluntary service" anyway.

But you are correct that I'm not a University Graduate, but for all the wrong reasons though.

Fireblossom
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02 May 2019, 5:22 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:

You do realize that if everyone or even half of the people thought that way, there wouldn't be enough tax payers, which would lead to the government being unable to pay any benefits. And then people like that would starve etc.

thinkinginpictures
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02 May 2019, 7:47 am

Fireblossom wrote:

thinkinginpictures wrote:

No. Basic Income would need to be implemented then, ensuring everyone a genuinly free choice to work and pay taxes or don't work and recieve free money which is less than if you work for money and pay taxes.

This way there is an incentive to work and pay taxes, but with a genuinly free choice for everyone.

I suggest you go read this:
https://basicincome.org/basic-income/fr ... questions/

Besides, if everyone - as you say - would think what I think, then there would be no soldiers in any country anywhere in this world, meaning no military expenses either - leaving lots and lots and LOTS of money for welfare benefits.

Fnord
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02 May 2019, 8:18 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Voluntary service is not slavery, plain and simple. Any statement to the contrary is simply wrong.

But the Vietnam War wasn't exactly fought by volunteers, was it?

Yes, it was. Those who were drafted usually ended up in the Army Infantry, while those who volunteered for service usually ended up in the branch of their choice -- Air Force, Coast Guard, Marines, Navy, or Peace Corp -- or in the Army MOS of their choice.

thinkinginpictures wrote:

As I recall from history, America had the draft in place. A draft (conscription) means to put someone in prison if they refuse to do military service or any of the alternatives provided.

Correct so far; but not everyone who served in the Vietnam War was drafted.

thinkinginpictures wrote:

People should not be forced to do ANY kind of work for the state -- be it military or alternative service. They should be free to choose their jobs without fear of imprisonment.

Incorrect. That practice works only in peacetime. In a declared war, soldiers are needed immediately. This necessitates The Draft -- a necessary evil to fight an even bigger evil.

thinkinginpictures wrote:

But you are correct that I'm not a University Graduate...

I know.

thinkinginpictures wrote:

Besides, I'm not an American.

That explains a lot.

thinkinginpictures wrote:

I live in Europe and in Europe forced labor is very common in many EU member states. Work over here isn't exactly what you describe as "voluntary service" anyway.

What were you expecting; free food, free housing, free medical care, free education …

… all without having to contribute anything in return?

:roll:

Kids …

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Last edited by Fnord on 02 May 2019, 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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