Do you know that the God of the Bible doesn't exist?

Page 4 of 11 [ 167 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 11  Next


Do you know that the God of the Bible doesn't exist?
Yes 47%  47%  [ 47 ]
No 53%  53%  [ 52 ]
Total votes : 99

Sylvius
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 97
Location: Canada

08 Aug 2007, 4:03 pm

Ragtime wrote:
calandale wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
...me, being one who exists...


Proof please?


Who goes there, person or unperson? And why should my existence need proof?

So you'll believe it. Clearly you believe you exist, but why? Your perception presupposes thta you exist, which precludes you using your perception as evidence of your existence. Like you do here:
Ragtime wrote:
It is its own proof, as far as proof can reach

By positing your existence as its own proof, you've presupposed your existence, thus making your reasoning circular.

That fact is, there is no starting point for your reasoning that is divorced from your person, thus you cannot use that reasoning to proof the existence of your person.



techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,525
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi

08 Aug 2007, 4:29 pm

No, just because we really shouldn't have higher cognition - it makes no sense, it doesn't serve any real purpose other than making us completely miserable in the absence of any sort of exterior to earthly life (let alone is a weakness - not a strength, in terms of natural law), and while I have a really hard time believing that a god who's all knowing and all seeing and actually KNOWS the limitations and personalities of the people he created could be so judgmental or single-faceted as to offer one term of salvation it does occur to me that while he may exist maybe half the bible is scrap and the many controlling and sort of psychotically closed minded aspects of its interpretation are just human corruption.



calandale
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,439

08 Aug 2007, 5:20 pm

Ragtime wrote:

You haven't even claimed your own existence... I don't answer phantoms. (Or pink elephants.) :P


A silly game, because you KNOW that
you can't do so.



Dr-Strangelove
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

User avatar

Joined: 2 Aug 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 8

09 Aug 2007, 2:08 pm

The thread question is a bit of a trick question. In order to answer it, we would need to establish an epistemological criteria such that the question would be of he kind that could be addressed. In that case only the God of the philosophers could be known. The god of the Bible could only ever be a matter for belief as it is clearly stated in various passages that he has revealed himself to a select few individuals who in turn informed the world about the content of this revelation. The nature of such revelation is precisely that the content cannot be known, only accepted or rejected. I believe in God, but not the God of the Bible.



richardbenson
Xfractor Card #351
Xfractor Card #351

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,553
Location: Leave only a footprint behind

09 Aug 2007, 10:07 pm

Kosmonaut wrote:
i dont understand the question so i voted no
haha. yeah there really should be an undecided option since life is a little confusing dont you think?

so far everyones religion isnt the truth


_________________
Winds of clarity. a universal understanding come and go, I've seen though the Darkness to understand the bounty of Light


jrknothead
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Aug 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,423

10 Aug 2007, 3:48 am

kt-64 wrote:
I know he doesnt exist. Because, he was invented by man.


exactly... god of the bible cannot be what they say he is because he has too many of the imperfections of man... jealousy, anger, irrational thought, just to name a few... god could only have been created by men who had the same imperfections, biases, and prejudices...



Sylvius
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 97
Location: Canada

10 Aug 2007, 4:38 pm

richardbenson wrote:
Kosmonaut wrote:
i dont understand the question so i voted no
haha. yeah there really should be an undecided option since life is a little confusing dont you think?

so far everyones religion isnt the truth

No, an undecided option wouldn't make any sense. You know the contents of your own mind, so you know whether you know something. Either you know it or you don't.

The question didn't ask you whether the God of the bible exists, but whether you know he doesn't. You can't be uncertain about that answer.



The_Chosen_One
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,357
Location: Looking down on humanity

12 Aug 2007, 5:39 am

To me, it all sounds like a load of theological penis envy. For a start, we have a so-called God of Love (Ragtime's God) who would bestow all of the bounties of heaven if only people would take Jesus as their saviour, then we have a callous and jealous God who would punish mankind for their sins (still the same God, perhaps); what a load of crap!
If God so loved the world blah-de-blah, then being a so-called god of love, all the things that happened to Job wouldn't have happened because he wouldn't have had that that stupid bet with Satan in the first place. Also, he was supposed to have given man the choice whether to believe and follow him or not (he told Adam and Eve everything would be hunky-dory til Eve ate the apple and then said 'go forth and multiply' or in other words get stuffed) and then said 'you can believe, but if you don't you are rooted'. Now why would a so-called omnipotent and omniscient god do these things if he truly loved mankind? Or are we really his toys that he can play with and discard whenever he pleases?
Then we have the Islamic god who is supposed to be better than the Christian god, and the Buddhist god whom the Christians say is Satanic blah-de-blah. Now I say I'm pagan, and I suppose Ragtime and the other Christians will say I'm going to hell. Ha, because to a Pagan, Satan and Hell don't exist. Sure we believe in gods and reincarnation etc, but our gods aren't as contrary and contradictory as the Judeo-Christian or the Ameri-Christian god.
And finally, the bible isn't meant to be taken literally today; it is only a book of old stories and legends that was written in a time when people were more susceptible to supernatural explanations about natural events, and the threat of God's wrath had more power over the populace. An earthquake cause the fall of the walls of Jericho and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the flood was what is now the Black Sea after the end of the ice age. As I said, natural events. Emperor Constantine ordered the bible to be put together out of at least 100 books in 312 CE, and only 66 mad the final edit, because the rest wouldn't have fit in with the theological, idiological and political landscape of the time. Also, Jesus, was a great teacher/philosopher/healer (doctor), but as for him being the supernatural son of a spiritual deity, I very much doubt it.
And as for the antichrist, he has been and gone. Mark said Jesus would return soon, what he meant was within 30-40 years of Jesus' death. The antichrist was actually Nero, and John wasn't predicting the apocalyse, he was reporting on it 20 years later for posterity as a warning for it not to happen again.
So you see, a lot of what people has been taught has been taken out of context, and has been taken far too literally.
Now, consider the bible like a newspaper, a hard-covered newspaper. Do you believe everything written in the newspaper, because afterall, the paper is only a bunch of stories written by a bunch of reporters giving their slant on a bunch of events that may or may not have happened. And if you are willing to question your own existence, then obviously you can't trust what you are reading in the paper as fact, and therefore the bible can't be trusted either.
I, however do exist, because I can look at myself, slap my arm and say OUCH. If I didn't exist, could I do this? Could I be actually writing in this forum if I didn't exist? Hmmmmm? Case closed.


_________________
Pagans are people too, not just victims of a religious cleansing program. Universal harmony for all!!

Karma decides what must happen, and that includes everyone.


jfrmeister
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 447
Location: #2309 WP'er

12 Aug 2007, 11:57 am

There's far too many outright contradictions and stretches of logic in the bible for it to be true.

Take the "Problem of Evil" for example. These 3 things can't co-exist:

1) God is omnipotent

2) God is omnibenevolent

3) Evil exists

...and don't give me the BS excuse that god allows evil to exist in order to test humanity. Most evil in this world, humanity is powerless to stop.



calandale
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,439

12 Aug 2007, 6:16 pm

jfrmeister wrote:
There's far too many outright contradictions and stretches of logic in the bible for it to be true.

Take the "Problem of Evil" for example. These 3 things can't co-exist:

1) God is omnipotent

2) God is omnibenevolent

3) Evil exists

...and don't give me the BS excuse that god allows evil to exist in order to test humanity. Most evil in this world, humanity is powerless to stop.


Unless evil is good.



The_Chosen_One
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,357
Location: Looking down on humanity

12 Aug 2007, 6:23 pm

Try reading 'Good Omens' by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaimen. Has an interesting slant on the good vs evil argument.


_________________
Pagans are people too, not just victims of a religious cleansing program. Universal harmony for all!!

Karma decides what must happen, and that includes everyone.


calandale
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,439

12 Aug 2007, 6:26 pm

Going into fun fantasy on the
topic, I'd suggest Steven Brust's
"To Reign in Hell".



LKL
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,402

12 Aug 2007, 6:34 pm

So, you're walking home alone one night, and as you pass the mouth of an alley, god pulls you in, shoves you up against the wall, and holds a gun loaded with hell-bullets in your face. He says, 'Do what I say, or I'll shoot you.'

You say, 'why should I? You're obviously not nice.'

He says, 'I have my reasons, unknowable to the likes of you! Make your choice!'

Hindi gods threaten with Hindi hell-bullets
Buddhist gods threaten with eternal-rebirth-bullets
Christian god threatens with Christian hell-bullets
Islamic god threatens with Islamic hell-bullets
Jewish god threatens with Jewish hell-bullets
Egyptian gods threatened with Egyptian hell-bullets
Greek gods threatened with Greek hell-bullets

Which hell should I be most afraid of?

Maybe I'm lucky, because I don't believe that any of them exist.



The_Chosen_One
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,357
Location: Looking down on humanity

12 Aug 2007, 6:46 pm

I'd take the Buddhist one over the rest. But my Pagan beliefs are already covered there, if not indirectly.


_________________
Pagans are people too, not just victims of a religious cleansing program. Universal harmony for all!!

Karma decides what must happen, and that includes everyone.


Sylvius
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 97
Location: Canada

12 Aug 2007, 7:50 pm

jfrmeister wrote:
There's far too many outright contradictions and stretches of logic in the bible for it to be true.

Take the "Problem of Evil" for example. These 3 things can't co-exist:

1) God is omnipotent

2) God is omnibenevolent

3) Evil exists

...and don't give me the BS excuse that god allows evil to exist in order to test humanity. Most evil in this world, humanity is powerless to stop.

Except the bible doesn't actually require that god be omnibenevolent.

And clearly he can't be - you've just shown that.



The_Chosen_One
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,357
Location: Looking down on humanity

12 Aug 2007, 8:24 pm

Oh, and the god mugging theory only really works if you do believe that there is a god; if you don't believe in god AND hell, you would just walk past the alley and nothing would happen.

Unless you get hit by a bus, and that would have nothing to do with god (Ragtime would have us believe differently, though).

Oh, and BTW, the one thing that really makes me laugh is the thing about Adam being raised from dust, and Eve being made from one of Adam's ribs. Completely discounting millions of years of evolution, the Creationists would have us believe some hogwash like that. Even though Darwin's theory might be somehow flawed, it stands up more readily than anything the Creationists have put forward. But then again, they tend to use a lot of blind faith for their argument and when anyone tries to point out inadequacies, they yell 'Blasphemy' or 'Heretic' and close down the discussion. That's the sort of blinkered thinking that got us into so many wars in the first place, too.


_________________
Pagans are people too, not just victims of a religious cleansing program. Universal harmony for all!!

Karma decides what must happen, and that includes everyone.