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Fnord
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17 Nov 2020, 5:05 pm

uncommondenominator wrote:
Fnord wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
Fnord wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I have to wonder how often the same few incidents get reported as separate incidents.
It makes you wonder if they're not reporting the same handful of claims over and over again on purpose, with different headlines from different sources, in order to create the illusion that these claims are far more prolific that they actually are.
That is a verbose way of putting it; but yeah, that is definitely something to consider.  It's like what happened when only one person claimed to have seen "Bigfoot" -- the same report was repeated over and over again (each time with new embellishments) so often that now it seems as if "Bigfoot" is everywhere all at once.
Verbosity helps to allay misinterpretation. It's harder to take things out of context when the context is embedded in the observation. Also, as a general rule, if I'm going to call out a mechanism of deceit, I'm going to take the time to explain how it works and what it's doing, rather than simply claiming there is one.  As for your "bigfoot" example, that's exactly it. 50 different people all hear a story about a bigfoot sighting, but all 50 people heard the story from the same exact person, and didn't know it. So while it gives the illusion of 50 different bigfoot sightings, it's really only ONE bigfoot claim, repeated 50 times.  In that same vein, if one can get a news story reported by 10 different "news" outlets, then when *they* go to report it they get to make it look like 10 different claims, rather than ONE claim repeated 10 times. And even then, it's still a CLAIM.
Thus we have only one report of mishandled ballots being expanded by innuendo, rumor, and outright deceit into an alleged vast conspiracy affecting every single ballot at every single voting site.  Sad.
The system doesn't actually have to be broken if you can simply erode people's faith in it's operation. And you don't have to "prove" much if you can simply cast everything into doubt. Not only that, but it's far easier to argue to be "right", than it is to argue to be accurate. All you have to do to prove you're "right" is cherry pick data that proves you right, and ignore any data that proves you wrong. "Facts" are irrelevant - it's down to being "clever".
Hence, Trump's version of leadership.

(Except for that "clever" part.)



uncommondenominator
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17 Nov 2020, 7:26 pm

Fnord wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
Fnord wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
Fnord wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I have to wonder how often the same few incidents get reported as separate incidents.
It makes you wonder if they're not reporting the same handful of claims over and over again on purpose, with different headlines from different sources, in order to create the illusion that these claims are far more prolific that they actually are.
That is a verbose way of putting it; but yeah, that is definitely something to consider.  It's like what happened when only one person claimed to have seen "Bigfoot" -- the same report was repeated over and over again (each time with new embellishments) so often that now it seems as if "Bigfoot" is everywhere all at once.
Verbosity helps to allay misinterpretation. It's harder to take things out of context when the context is embedded in the observation. Also, as a general rule, if I'm going to call out a mechanism of deceit, I'm going to take the time to explain how it works and what it's doing, rather than simply claiming there is one.  As for your "bigfoot" example, that's exactly it. 50 different people all hear a story about a bigfoot sighting, but all 50 people heard the story from the same exact person, and didn't know it. So while it gives the illusion of 50 different bigfoot sightings, it's really only ONE bigfoot claim, repeated 50 times.  In that same vein, if one can get a news story reported by 10 different "news" outlets, then when *they* go to report it they get to make it look like 10 different claims, rather than ONE claim repeated 10 times. And even then, it's still a CLAIM.
Thus we have only one report of mishandled ballots being expanded by innuendo, rumor, and outright deceit into an alleged vast conspiracy affecting every single ballot at every single voting site.  Sad.
The system doesn't actually have to be broken if you can simply erode people's faith in it's operation. And you don't have to "prove" much if you can simply cast everything into doubt. Not only that, but it's far easier to argue to be "right", than it is to argue to be accurate. All you have to do to prove you're "right" is cherry pick data that proves you right, and ignore any data that proves you wrong. "Facts" are irrelevant - it's down to being "clever".
Hence, Trump's version of leadership.

(Except for that "clever" part.)

In trump's case, substitute being "clever" with being a "spoiled trust fund brat / con man". All he has to do it make up the lies, his minions will do all the legwork to rationalize and justify it. Some of his apologists are good enough at what they do that they can bury an "opponent" in enough reasonable sounding nonsense that it takes an entire essay JUST to correct all the logical fallacies present and make it grounded in reality, before ever even actually getting to the point itself. At which point it's too long and they don't want to read it.

Also, as far as trump is concerned, this isn't even about fraud - it's about money. If you go to the actual page that he personally endorses donating to, to fund his "anti fraud efforts", when you look at the page that tells you where the money goes, 60% of the money goes to paying off his campaign debts, and 40% of the money goes to the RNC, meaning 100% of the money goes to NOT uncovering fraud. "Send me your money, and I'll keep it" IS the trump business model.



Jiheisho
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Tempus Fugit
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17 Nov 2020, 10:04 pm

The voting is over with. It's pretty pointless to keep up a campaign against the probable loser. But I suppose it's cathartic.



cyberdad
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18 Nov 2020, 1:42 am

Tempus Fugit wrote:
The voting is over with. It's pretty pointless to keep up a campaign against the probable loser. But I suppose it's cathartic.


And yet the loser/s still won't stop
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... 9c1990bc5a

Trump and his republican cronies think they are going to resurrect victory from defeat...so he's still fair game



uncommondenominator
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18 Nov 2020, 1:37 pm

Tempus Fugit wrote:
The voting is over with. It's pretty pointless to keep up a campaign against the probable loser. But I suppose it's cathartic.


What about the actual loser? Trump lost. He played his "voter fraud" card, and it failed. We would probably drop the subject, if HE PERSONALLY, and his horde of political kobolds, didn't keep bringing it back up over and over. If anything, people are merely responding to his "campaign" of lies and bullsnot.



Fnord
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18 Nov 2020, 2:30 pm

Mr. Trump's efforts to "prove" widespread voter fraud fail simply because there was no widespread voter fraud; only the usual mistakes by incompetent poll-workers and a few isolated effups by vindictive individuals operating alone.

Also, we can safely ignore any so-called "evidence" presented by people from other countries, since they seem to have even less understanding of the American electoral system than the average American voter.



Ananonymousperson
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18 Nov 2020, 4:18 pm

I hope the election was rigged. I hope americans didn’t vote for Joe over Trump.



Fnord
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18 Nov 2020, 4:28 pm

Ananonymousperson wrote:
I hope the election was rigged. I hope americans didn’t vote for Joe over Trump.
There is no evidence that the election was rigged; so yes, Americans did vote for Joseph Biden as President.



Redd_Kross
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18 Nov 2020, 4:38 pm

Ananonymousperson wrote:
I hope the election was rigged. I hope americans didn’t vote for Joe over Trump.

So, you'd rather have a failed businessman, arrogant bully, divisive motormouth, old school elitist, and narcissistic orange buffoon over someone who actually might do something good for ordinary people?

Well good luck with that, then.



Fnord
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18 Nov 2020, 4:41 pm

Redd_Kross wrote:
Ananonymousperson wrote:
I hope the election was rigged. I hope americans didn’t vote for Joe over Trump.
So, you'd rather have a failed businessman, arrogant bully, divisive motormouth, old school elitist, and narcissistic orange buffoon ...
You left out "liar", "cheater", and "fraud".



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18 Nov 2020, 4:47 pm

Fnord wrote:
Redd_Kross wrote:
Ananonymousperson wrote:
I hope the election was rigged. I hope americans didn’t vote for Joe over Trump.
So, you'd rather have a failed businessman, arrogant bully, divisive motormouth, old school elitist, and narcissistic orange buffoon ...
You left out "liar", "cheater", and "fraud".

Ah sorry, I overlooked the obvious.



funeralxempire
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18 Nov 2020, 4:49 pm

Ananonymousperson wrote:
I hope the election was rigged. I hope americans didn’t vote for Joe over Trump.


Why? Do you hope that Americans are as horrible as Trump makes them look?


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
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Fnord
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18 Nov 2020, 4:50 pm

Redd_Kross wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Redd_Kross wrote:
Ananonymousperson wrote:
I hope the election was rigged. I hope americans didn’t vote for Joe over Trump.
So, you'd rather have a failed businessman, arrogant bully, divisive motormouth, old school elitist, and narcissistic orange buffoon ...
You left out "liar", "cheater", and "fraud".
Ah sorry, I overlooked the obvious.
No worries, mate!

Soon enough, this will all be behind us.



Brictoria
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18 Nov 2020, 9:13 pm

Interesting Affadavit from an active case in Georgia:

Quote:
2.1 am a Florida Bar licensed paralegal.

3.1 am a registered Democrat.


Quote:
6. It was of particular interest to me that hundreds of these ballots seemed impeccable, with no folds or creases. The bubble selections were perfectly made (all within the circle), only observed selections in black ink, and all happened to be selections for Biden.

7. It was also of particular interest to me to see that signatures were not being verified and there were no corresponding envelopes seen in site.


Quote:
9. Based on my observations, I believe there was fraud was committed in the presidential election and question the validity of the Georgia recount process.

Source: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18632787/6/6/wood-v-raffensperger/



uncommondenominator
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18 Nov 2020, 10:02 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Interesting Affadavit from an active case in Georgia:
Quote:
2.1 am a Florida Bar licensed paralegal.

3.1 am a registered Democrat.


Quote:
6. It was of particular interest to me that hundreds of these ballots seemed impeccable, with no folds or creases. The bubble selections were perfectly made (all within the circle), only observed selections in black ink, and all happened to be selections for Biden.

7. It was also of particular interest to me to see that signatures were not being verified and there were no corresponding envelopes seen in site.


Quote:
9. Based on my observations, I believe there was fraud was committed in the presidential election and question the validity of the Georgia recount process.

Source: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18632787/6/6/wood-v-raffensperger/


A signed and notarized claim is still just a claim. An officially recorded claim is still just a claim.

Being a BAR certified paralegal in no way qualifies him as being knowledgeable in any way about the electoral or voting process. It's an appeal to authority. The fact that he is a democrat is irrelevant.

Ballots are't shot out by a laser printer. They're printed in specific quantities, on special paper, in secured locations, using plates, just like money. When the printing cycle is done, the plates are kept under lock and key. Specific quantities of reprints are ONLY done in specific cases, such as typographical errors. The number of ballots are counted and recounted at every step of production, transportation, and delivery. There's not really any way to secretly print extras. Or to steal or sneak off with extras. There's already so much scrutiny paid to every step of the entire process, someone besides a rando florida legal dude woulda noticed. Unless maybe THE LEFT! hired james bond and ethan hunt and the entire north korean army to pull off a massive oceans eleven style caper, to print new fake ballots, destroy old legit ballots, have all the count numbers match, and NOBODY noticed ANYTHING except for Florida Man, conveniently here to save the day with claims based on supposition.

Those of us not from America might not remember back in 2004, there was a bit of a kerfuffle over the claim of a few boxes of ballots going missing, in Florida, interestingly. The republicans' response was that the idea was laughably absurd. But now, a grand conspiracy involving multiple states and not only missing ballots but new fake ballots to replace them, is TOTALLY plausible. They should make up their mind. Is voting fraud easy, or impossible? It seems like when they win, it's impossible, but when they lose, it's EVERYwhere!



Last edited by uncommondenominator on 18 Nov 2020, 10:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.