I'm going to say it like it is: the Allies in WW2 were EVIL

Post Reply New Topic

Enough of this "history is written by the winners" hogwash propaganda making WW2 into some Biblical battle between good and evil, between the savage Nazis and Japanese Axis powers versus the righteous legions of Good Allied powers here to save the world from the scourge of Nazism.

My grandparents were from Palestine and yes they were loyal supporters of Hitler and part of an elite SS unit of Arab volunteers who supported Hitler. And you better believe I am PROUD of them and not ashamed of them at all. Not one bit.

Not because I like Hitler. But because my grandparents didnt support Hitler out of hatred for Jews or any of that propaganda Zionists love to parrot about Palestinians supporting Hitler out of fervent anti-jew hatred, but because Hitler was the enemy of the British who were colonizing Palestine and thus the only viable way to liberate a colonized land from its colonizer.

England was occupying Palestine ILLEGALLY since the end of WW1

Illegally because the British promised to hand over all the lands the Arabs won to the Arabs if they helped the British overthrow the Ottomans. As soon as Lawrence of Arabia (may God damn him) finished his work deceiving the Arabs into helping the Brits overthrow the Ottomans the lands of the Arabs became divided up amongst the British and French and from that infamous day in Arab history my people became under the yoke of the worst tyrants in history, the Brits and the French. Every Muslim and Arab and Middle Easterner to this day regrets betraying the Ottomans and wishes that the Arabs never allied with the British and French against the Ottoman Caliphate.

Sorry to say but the Americans, British and French who formed the crux of the Allied powers weren't heroes but their own evil colonial powers too. However because the Brits, French and Americans were colonizing other brown people instead of invading other white nations like the Germans did we completely ignore the fact that the Allies weren't by any stretch of the imagination good people

Tell me how America was a good nation when it was openly discriminating against its black citizens, starting coups in other Latin American nations, helping assassinate the democratically elected leader of the Congo, Patrice Lumumba, and creating the situation in the Congo that still plagues that country to this day. Then it went on to start an illegal war in Vietnam (some white wash it and call it a military action, but I call it an illegal war) that killed over a million Vietnamese civilians, led to the Hmong crisis, divided the nation, burned most of the country down and left millions suffering with birth defects from copious use of Agent Orange and Napalm dropped on Vietnamese villages, as well as numerous war crimes and mass rapes such as the My Lai Massacre.

England had an empire so large they say the sun never set on the British Empire, and many conflicts in the world today were literally caused by the British dividing and conquering the lands they ruled, such as India and Palestine, and you want to tell me that Enlgand is some beacon of democracy and liberation freeing the world from the scourge of Nazi Germany, when England was 100 times the Colonial power that Nazi Germany ever was?

France to this day has the skulls of the Algerian heroes who fought bravely for independence in their museums. The French colonized most of the Brown world in Africa and Asia and were no saints to their brown subjects.


I'm not here to say that the Allies in WW2 stopping Nazi Germany was a bad thing. Don't get me wrong, id prefer the Allies won WW2 over the Nazis despite how much I loathe the Allies as the hypocritical peacemakers they pretend to be.

However not every brown person or colonized person in the world saw WW2 as this battle between good and evil the media made it out to be. To be my grandparents who supported Hitler, and to every Palestinian, Iraqi and Syrian being colonized by the British and French, we saw Hitler as our liberator and savior and we saw the British and French as the evil forces trying to enslave the world. Granted Im very aware that had Hitler reached the Middle East he would have done worse to us than the Brits and French ever did, but at that time the Arabs saw in Hitler the only way of removing the yoke of British tyranny and French subjugation that was choking our people. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Now let me digress. I am aware that in WW2 there were countries liberated by the Japanese from Allied control, who while they were jubilant at 1st began to regret it the moment they realized that the Axis powers were way worse. That happened I believe in Malaysia and Indochina where while ecstatic at 1st that the French and British were gone the natives realized that the Japanese were much worse than their former overlords and wished they came back. Cool, I agree that if Hitler reached the Middle East and invaded our lands every person who once supported Hitler would have asked for the Allies to come back. That doesnt negate anything I said above. I never once argued that the Allies weren't better than the Axis, because truth be told they were. But being better than the worst of humanity doesnt make you good. Bill Cosby is a much better human being than Charles Manson, but that doesnt make Bill Cosby the rapist a good person. It just means compared to a serial killer like Charles Manson Bill Cosby is a saint relatively

TLDR; WW2 wasn't a war between the good guys and the bad guys. Rather WW2 was a war between bad colonizers and invaders versus even more depraved colonizers and invaders. I know this point may seem trivial and almost obvious that in the world of geopolitics there rarely is good or bad but grey, but you'll be surprised how many people drink the koolaid that WW2 is a Biblical battle between Good and Evil, God and Satan, not even realizing how idiotic that is

People paint the Allies as good mostly because with the nefarious focus on Hitler's Holocaust it's obvious the side that commit genocide will always beat the side that didnt commit genocide....except the Allies did commit genocide. The Americans commit genocide against the Native Americans. The British atrocities in India did actually in some case constitute as genocide such as the Bengali famine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943

And the British most definitely commit genocide when they colonized Australia and Canada. The Belgians, another Allied power commit genocide in the Congo.

Im happy more than the next guy that the Allies won WW2 and not the Axis powers, but that doesnt mean for the Brown people of the world who suffered under British, French and American terrorism that an Allied victory was that much of a reward. it sucked less than had Hitler and Hirohito won, but it sucked nonetheless.

Yes, the Bad Guys defeated the other Bad Guys.

Thanks for that informative post, salad. I didn't know most of what you explained. You're always very knowledgeable about world history and you present information with a very articulate ease. Are you an academic? Are you planning to pursue research or a career in the field?

You flatter me

I'm truly humbled by your compliment, but I do say without false humility that it feels unearned. I'm really not as knowledgeable about world history as you think I am. My father and grandfather were both history buffs and even aspiring history professors so I as a little Palestinian boy forced to sit in the circle of elders yapping about old people stuff, which for a typical Palestinian circle was all history and politics with the occasional sectarian religion squabbles, it was only inevitable that I picked up my fair share of old people talk as I was trying to focus on playing "Super Mario 3" on the Gameboy. The more I attended the circle of elders that my dad dragged me to the more I naturally absorbed like a sponge the awareness of certain Middle Eastern issues, and the more the history of my family's region became more expanded upon and focused on. There was a lot of anger and bitterness over how the British and French betrayed our people in WW1 and when I heard my grandfather yelling about that I felt curious over why the passion over this. It wasn't until much later did I learn just how much of the current conflict and mess in the Middle East and Palestine was attributed to the duplicity of the British and French during WW1, and my father and grandfather forced me to read their dusty history books and textbooks, including the boring ones in Arabic, or else I wouldn't be able to get an X-Box 360 like I wanted for my birthday

I actually hate history and find it boring, but given how much certain conflicts in the world can be traced back to certain events in history especially after WW1 I retained my fair share of those conversations and will never forget the anger of my elders and religious leaders as they were yelling over tea and hookah about how much of the Middle Eastern tragedy traces back to WW1.

I wanted to be an academic and still do, but after my injury last year and the frequent migraines and issues learning ive taken a massive blow to my aspirations and am working on fixing my health so I can get back into academics like I wanted to. if I did graduate college id rather major in evolutionary biology, because unlike history evolutionary biology actually sounds fun and interesting

Poles fought for the allies and then - we interpret it that we were sold to Stalin at the Yalta conference. I can get that almost everyone was tired of this war and wanted peace even at a cost of sending millions of people to another evil - but the feeling of being betrayed is here, too.

WWII had very strong Good vs Evil propaganda but while Nazi Germany was evil, the rest for sure weren't saints - and USSR was another evil that was left to be, because, unlike Nazi Germany, it didn't threaten London or Paris.

Please don’t forget that the Nazis killed many different types of people....not just Jews.

If the Nazis would have won the war, things would have been much worse....trust me.

The Pathology of the Nazis was well beyond the pathology of the Allies.

Newsflash: good and bad guys only exist in cartoons and movies. More in depth details after the break.

I see what the OP is saying about how Arabs have gotten a bad rap for seeking Hitler as an ally against Britain in Palestine.

The Germans smuggled guns into Ireland in both the first and in the second world wars in a similar bid to help rebellion by a subject people of the British Empire (not because the Nazis loved freedom but because it was a way to distract the British war effort against they the Germans).

But even though history gets presented in simplistic terms - lets not go overboard and react with opposite oversimplicity.

The bottom line is that the right side won the war. The Axis needed to be defeated.

The right side won the war in the sense that the Germans and Japanese were far more evil and malevolent than the British, French and Americans. But considering how many in the African world, Middle East and Asia looked upon WW2 as a white man's war between 2 different colonial powers and they were forced to aid the Allies because they were the lesser of 2 evils, it shows that to the rest of the non-White world life still sucked under the yoke of the British, French and American hegemony. Right after the Germans were defeated and Japanese crushed it's not like the rest of the brown world was celebrating the way Europe was; many continued to suffer and their only consolation was that at least the British and French arent creating death camps like the Nazis and Japanese.

After WW2 ended Korea was divided up by the Americans and Russians, creating the conflict in Korea which has lasted too this day thanks to Allied meddling in a once prosperous land.

The French were so savage in their quashing Algerian independence that besides torturing a huge chunk of the Algerian population the French even went so far as to collect the skulls and genitals of the Algerians and house them in public museums as a way to dehumanize them.

When the people of the Congo wanted to elect the only real African hero to be their 1st Prime Minister, Patrice Lumumba, the 1st ever democratically elected African leader, Belgian war planes in tandem with the American CIA helped assassinate him and put in a puppet African leader instead, a coup whose ramifications literally laid the groundwork for the Congo Wars that were considered the World Wars of Africa.

Every single major conflict in the Middle East to this day can be traced back to the divide and conquer strategies the British used in dividing the Middle East along fault lines that have only bred sectarian strife and in the case of Israel/Palestine the British explicitly promised the land to the Arabs, double crossed them, and then promised the land back to the Jews, creating the modern Palestine-Israel conflict that we see today that is currently killing my people and family in Gaza.

The Americans used coups in Guatemala, Iran, and other brown countries to subvert democratically elected leaders and impose puppets, and they also meddled in so many Latin American countries who tried experimenting with socialism using brutal tactics of military invasions (Vietnam) and funding death squads and terrorists (Honduras, Colombia, and Nicaragua) any and every time a nation tried to be independent.

It's like Animal Farm all over again. The animals help overthrow the humans only to find out that the new pig aristocracy sucks, but hey at least its better than the humans....

The Africans, Arabs, Asians, and other Brown folks had it bad under the Americans, French and British, but at least they weren't Hitler.

In the end of the day the Brown people of the world had to choose between explicit annihilation from the Axis or perpetual subjugation, slavery and paternalistic intervention from the Allies.

Sure I agree picking the side that doesn't want to completely eliminate your genes from existence is the obvious meta of the game, but it still sucks that your best choice in this cruel ultimatum is still subjugation and repeated invasions. Since the Allies won WW2 every single time a Brown nation in the world tried to be free from the Allied hegemony and create its own free nation one of several tactics would happen: brutal suppression (Algeria, Kenya), coups and/or assassination of leaders (Guatemala, Iran, Libya, Iraq and Congo), funding of death squads and terrorists to destabilize said nation (Syria, Nicaragua, Honduras, Colombia and Iraq), military intervention (Vietnam) or other terroristic tactics, and when all else failed the Allied would divide said brown nation up in such a way as to preempt any and all hopes of unification down the line (Vietnam, Korea, Somalia, India and Palestine)

Sure its cool that the brown people of the world arent marching off to death camps like in Hitler's world, but I dont think they like being the paternalistic subjects of a cruel world order where if they step out of line they can be bombed and terrorized by Uncle Sam, Ol' Tommy, and Monsiuer Macron.

A healthy, pessimistic view of the world. It's the key to happiness. I suspect you'll miss us Brits even more when the middle east becomes a collection of Chinese satrapies rather than an American one.

Last edited by Mikah on 15 May 2021, 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

@salad, do you know of any good books or articles about T.E. Lawrence from an Arab perspective?

Most people in the US aren't aware of Palestinian involvement in WWII, that propaganda/P.R. notwithstanding.


I remember reading in Joseph E. Persico's Piercing the Reigh that the Irish government was forced to shut down some Nazi radio intercept stations on their Atlantic coast after the OSS office in Bern received a tip about them.

A more extreme example would be Finland, which sided with the Nazis to drive the Soviets out of Finnish territory they'd conquered during the Winter War.


Are you sure that current US hostility toward Arabs is related to them being 'brown?' It seems that if it were, the US should be equally hostile to Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews.

I'll admit that our sycophantic relationship with Israel is pretty weird

I've always been impressed with the valor of Polish soldiers in WWII, and recall reading that Polish RAF pilots outperformed native British pilots in the Battle of Britain.

Poland was not "sold" by the western allies at Yalta. Eastern Europe fell under soviet domination because of the nature of the war and how it unfolded. There was nothing that the West could have done to alter that.

If the way the Chinese are treating the Uighurs is anything to go by, methinks the Middle East would be doing worse under China than America.

As for books on TE Lawrence from an Arab perspective I'd have to ask my dad since he's more interested in this stuff as a historian. I know most Arabs despise him though from frequent Facebook and Quora readings and comments.

Actually many Americans routinely parrot the myth that Palestinians conspired with Hitler to wipe out the Jews. American conservative radio host Michael Savage even claimed as much in one of his books, either "Scorched Earth" or "Stop the Coming Civil War".

The current American hostility towards Arabs is based on a multitude of factors. One is that the Arabs are the enemies of Israel, America's ally and some would even argue proxy in the Middle East. But more important than that the hostility towards Arabs plays into a larger plot by the West to subvert the unification of the Muslims under a Caliphate because the last time such unity was achieved the powers of Europes quaked under the expansion of the Caliphate. I forgot which British statesmen said this, but a famous British statesmen once said that it was the job of the West to find a way from preempting the Muslims from ever posing a threat to the West ever again, and that means disbanding the Ottomans and preventing their unification from ever happening. The type of potential power base a unified Muslim world would present to the West is frightening, and basic geopolitics 101 dictates that it is the interest of the West to preempt any and all attempts at Muslim/Arab unification given what that would pose for the power balance in the world. How else does one explain that conveniently the strongest and most uncompromising leaders to ever emerge out of the brown world either died under "mysterious" circumstances, were blatantly assassinated by the West, deposed, threatened with deposition, vilified by the West, etc; I'm talking leaders like Muhammad Morsi of Egypt, anti-imperialist Thomas Sankara of Burkina Faso, Gaddafi of Libya just when he began to introduce the petrodollar to Africa, Saddam Hussein right when he began to stop taking orders from America, and Patrice Lumumba of Congo, the 1st and only true leader of the Congo.