22 May 2021, 11:11 am
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 29,113
Location: Right over your left shoulder
22 May 2021, 11:43 am
22 May 2021, 12:54 pm
22 May 2021, 1:05 pm
24 May 2021, 3:28 am
24 May 2021, 7:06 am
ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
Those who feel their beliefs might be offended are best not participating in this thread. Don't know why two different mods felt the need to issue warnings when discussing beliefs. Can we not question each other?
Now to the OP:
It may sound strange to you, but that's the whole point of the religion. Christ isn't simply a teacher, but had such a love for humanity that he willingly died for their sins. Without death and ressurrection, he's just some prophet preaching on the street corner. Whether he was real or not (or was crucified of not) isn't the point. The mythology surrounds itself with Christ willingly choosing to suffer and die for the sins of humanity.
If this belief offends you, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But I feel you missed the whole point of the religion in the first place.
Now to the OP:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
I'm attacking a belief-system/ideology based on acceptance of someone sacrificing their own children.
It's sickening.
You talk about bullying, but what do you call an ideology which is based solely on acceptance of someone (God) sending his own son (Jesus) to be tortured and executed in the most cruel way ever possible, by slowly suffocating for several hours/days?
It's sickening.
You talk about bullying, but what do you call an ideology which is based solely on acceptance of someone (God) sending his own son (Jesus) to be tortured and executed in the most cruel way ever possible, by slowly suffocating for several hours/days?
It may sound strange to you, but that's the whole point of the religion. Christ isn't simply a teacher, but had such a love for humanity that he willingly died for their sins. Without death and ressurrection, he's just some prophet preaching on the street corner. Whether he was real or not (or was crucified of not) isn't the point. The mythology surrounds itself with Christ willingly choosing to suffer and die for the sins of humanity.
If this belief offends you, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But I feel you missed the whole point of the religion in the first place.
Grr, this thing did the dysfunctional captcha and lost part of what I had typed, a significant part.
And thanks to having copied it in to notepad before clicking post,
There it is, that indeed is the point.
Although I would call it the point of the faith instead of using the word religion.
The crucifixion and death was to pay the penalty of human insurrection against God, that being the penalty of eternal death for sin against the eternal God.
The resurrection of Jesus was to show that the penalty had been paid and death was now conquered.
Accepting that Jesus took your penalty upon himself and paid it for you, putting your faith in him, gives you his righteousness and gives you entry in to eternal life.
A question which comes up is whether this new thing, the belief in Christ Jesus, which was seen as a threat to the personal power of the then-current religious leaders, could have been stopped in its tracks by those leaders simply producing the body of Jesus, and if so, why didn't they.
Seriously, who's got the body?
If there is a dead body of Jesus Christ it must be definition be somewhere.
So why not produce it and put an end to the farce?
The account of his burial says a Roman soldier platoon was guarding the grave at the request of the religious leaders who had wanted the Romans to crucify Jesus, so it ain't like his disciple came and stole his body out from under the noses of a platoon of guys who had no qualms about killing anyone who stepped out of line.
The concept of the Trinity is also wrapped up in the life of Jesus, the crucifixion, the resurrection. And that is that the infinite eternal omniscient omnipotent God is one God who is manifested in three persons, God, Jesus, Holy Spirit; they are at the same time both three individuals and a singular God. How that can be is a great mystery to us finite humans.
That being the case, God sacrificed both his son AND himself on the cross.
Say what?
How does that work?
Dunno, it is outside the manner of existence we humans can experience.
Okay, so, there is the question of why was the sacrifice needed?
It was needed because at some point in history early humans basically committed an insurrection and sold their title to this Earth to an opponent of God after buying in to that opponent's lie and doing precisely what God had instructed them not to do.
That lead to the entire material world and the psychological world being poisoned by evil, in a word, sin.
From that point on everything coming out of that poisoned world would itself be poisoned.
God is infinite in existence, meaning he is also infinity pure and infinitely holy.
Poisoned sinful humans can not come before him, cannot exist in the face of infinite holiness.
Because of the sin and insurrection of humans, and because God is infinitely just, that justice demands those crimes be punished.
Because God is infinitely loving and infinitely merciful, love and mercy demanded action be taken to both satisfy that justice and at the same time give hope and life to humanity.
But being infinite, and omniscient, God had already known before this material world even existed that that would happen and known what he would do about it.
The following in Genesis 3 prophesies the birth of Jesus and his crucifixion,
"15And I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your seed and her seed.
He will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.” "
With the crucifixion the accuser bruised Jesus heel.
With the crucifixion and resurrection Jesus crushed the head of the accuser and the evil and death which the accuser had caused to enter this world.
Being miraculously virgin-born Jesus is the seed of the woman, and of the woman only, there was no human man involved in his coming to be in this world.
And it also meant Jesus could be born free of the poison of sin since he was not conceived in sin even though his mother Mary was born in sin and therefore herself needing salvation from sin.
So, Jesus, in another mystery beyond the experience of our human existence, became BOTH God and human.
And a human who was free of sin.
Because,
In order to be the sacrifice who covers the sins of humanity he himself had to be sinless.
And Jesus was not forced in to doing that. He came willingly with that goal his purpose.
Even so, in his humanity, the thing stressed him.
Yet in his divinity he was willing and most importantly, able, to do that, to be that.
So, because he chose to set aside his glory in heaven for a time and come here and live life as a human,
And because he sacrificed his life,
And because he rose from the dead to new life AND returned to heaven and his full divinity,
All we humans have to do is accept him and what he accomplished for us,
And we are given eternal life instead of eternal death.
That's it.
That's all it takes to have eternal life.
Yes, the 'default setting' is eternal death, but eternal life is free for the taking if you accept Christ.
So, choose eternal life instead.
(and as it happens, that eternal life is not going to be lounging about on clouds playing harps, the word is "rule and reign with Christ" which by definition means doing and accomplishing things)
(also, as it happens, 'the devil' is not some horned and tailed red-colored dude, before he fell he was a bright and beautiful guardian of the throne of God)
Okay, but what about people who lived before he did that?
You will find that the Jewish scriptures speak of people who believed God and it was credited to them as righteousness.
If seeking other than the Bible for documentation whether Jesus existed, this may be of interest,
https://www.bethinking.org/jesus/ancien ... an-sources
That was quite a lot of typing and now my hands are hurting bigtime.
24 May 2021, 7:26 am
24 May 2021, 8:08 am
24 May 2021, 11:25 am
"They" Say, Pictures Tell A Thousand WordS; iN the Case of 'Two Polaroids' Below Capturing
The Memory of January 6th, 'Tales' the 'True Detective' Story, Why the Myth of Jesus Being
Resurrected From the Dead After Being Crucified Still Comes; Which by the Way IS NOT THE
WORST TORTURE known to Humankind as My Mother Tried to Convince me, Buying A Book
On the Crucifixion of Jesus
in 2008, Opening a Random
Page of the Book, She Just Purchased,
Reading It Aloud Having to Say True
The Words that the Only Worse Torture
Known to Humankind Now is 'Trigeminal
Neuralgia'; Nah, i Did not Get Away With Sporadic
HeLL ON Earth Torture; i Was 'Gifted' with 'Type
Two Trigeminal Neuralgia' Like A Dentist Drill in my
Right Eye and Ear No Drug Would Touch From Wake to Sleep
For 66 Whole Months; When it comes to Heaven and Hell
Wagging Contests; Not At All THAT 'Impressed' Now By the Story
Of Jesus Suffering Then or the Little of What He Was Reported
To Parable About Heaven Within Eternally Now; Unfortunately,
Second Hand Reports of Heaven and Hell, Typically Are Not Worthy;
Or Even Close to worthy of the Actual Experience of Within; No Way to
Describe it Without Poetry Attempting to Touch What is 'Normally' Ineffable
Per Standard
Ways of
Using Prim
And Proper
Bowing and
Kneeling 'Queen's English' As Such
Or What's Left in Copied And Pasted
Scripts Over Thousands of Years in
A Rather Minuscule 800,000 or so Words
Book by Innumerable Ghost Authors With
(Plus, So Many Centuries of Scribes Penning Copy
Mistakes And Intentionally Making Changes too)
Famous Pen Names Like Luke, Mark, John, And
Matthew; And Folks Falling On Their Heads on Dusty
Old Roads to Damascus Like Saul the Paul Having Visions
And MaKinG That Gospel 'Truth' for Ages, So the Roman Empire And
Others At Least Will Have A 'Good Start' Building Empires over Binds and
Bonds of Religion/Myths that Keep the Commoners All Together In Glue so they
Will be Willing to Sacrifice Their Lives as such for Whatever Cause Kingdoms relate next...
Now, Oh Yeah, SpeaKinG of That the Two Photos Again in Polaroid Way of CNN Below...
Jesus Was Resurrected From the Dead in a Story As 'Loving One Another' Is Not
Enough to Subjugate, Control, And Master Subjects of Politics And Kingdom's Come
Still in 'Trump Ways' Now; The Blood of Many Are on the Hands of this Story Used
For Politics throughout the Ages for Power, Status, And Material Gains of Kingdom Come
Political Kings And Or Queens to Remain in Power And Use Commoners Like Little Puppets on strings...
Love is Real...
The Resurrection
Of Jesus And Even THE WORD GOD ALONE is 'the Straw Man'
STILL NOW Used For Political Rule For Thousands of Years Now...
Naked Love is Enough; Yet it Does Not Keep People in Power Only Love....
Yet on the Other Hand for the Meek; For the Last As First Love is the Greatest
Power AS Heaven and Hell Begins and Ends Always Starts Within Now As the
Only Reality is Our Experiences of Life Now; the rest of it basically is a 'Straw
Man' And
the 'Resurrection
of Jesus' Is No Better
Or Worse than All the
Other Straw Men Humans
Create to Forget They are Love...
It's really Sad and so Damned ironic...
YET It's true in Cause and Effect the
Myth of the Resurrection Is A Potentially
Very Dangerous Tool Used to Harm, Enslave, And Kill Others;
Handle With Care or Don't Handle At All; Handle With Ignorance And Fall
to '5th Avenue Bad Muse'...
Bottom Lines
Love is
Enough
And what
is Below is
(The 2 Pics)
As Anti-Christ
As Love Gets if Love is 'Christ'...
Nah, The Pictures Do Not Lie...
It's just Plain Sick and Out of Human Balance...
The Myth of Jesus Is Powerful Enough for Love or Destruction Obviously
As That Much of the Revelation of the Book Continues to Come Humanly True for Real Now...
And For those Who Laugh at Religion And Ignore it; Ya Better get to Know the Real 'DEViL' in the Room too...
Both
Versions
Are in that
Old 'Cook Book'.... Still Now...
And Other Than That Hehe Even
'Scientists' Have Religion They Even
Had A Big Convention For it Last Weekend
Called 'Pensacon' in Pensacola, Florida Yes
Science Fiction is Religion For 'Scientist Type Minds'
At Core We All Wanna Create A Most Colorful Life of Dreamtime Now
Most All
of
us at
least Hehe...
True, 'Stars Wars'
Is So Much Better
Than that Old Dusty
Book Yet i'm More into
Pictures; Not Much of a Word Person am i;
Believe IT or Not 'Ripley and Horatio', Hehe
As It's Worth Noting Words Are Only Pictures We Create That Are Not 'Essence'
Either; Again In this Way, All Words Are 'Straw Men' HAhA, Might As WELL Make 'em EPiCaLLY Fun...
Thumbs Down
On Most
of the
Old Bible;
There Isn't
Even Any Humor;
True Sign that Mostly
'Trump-Like' Folks Were in Charge oF it...
Cold Dead Living Hands (Souls) of Popes and Trumps As Such...
This is what Ya Do to Master Folks in Socio-Economic Scarcity; 'Misery Loves Company''
Gotta Get
Out and
About
Out
of the Desert Some Days...
i For One Do; Valley Mountain Same High..
24 May 2021, 11:45 am
Mountain Goat wrote:
There are two possibilities. One is that the Bible is true and is completely true, and the other is that the Bible is false and completely false.
Read and then decide.
Read and then decide.
Mountain Goat wrote:
Take it or leave it. Either the Bible is true and it is what it says it is, OR the whole lot is a lie. You choose. Picking and choosing little bits is only going to give you a false gospel which is useless.
If you insist, that could make it easy. I expect you know the Bible. Is it true that the genealogies of Jesus given in two different gospels contradict each other? There is also the bit about pi = 3. If one statement being false means the whole thing is a lie, then there is your answer: it is a lie.
On the other hand, if you don't follow all the rules laid down in Leviticus and elsewhere, like keeping kosher, then you pick and choose. Do you eat bacon? Do you switch on lights or take a flight on the Sabbath? If you do, you are not consistent in applying the standard that if one part is false, then all of it is.
24 May 2021, 12:59 pm
24 May 2021, 1:16 pm
24 May 2021, 2:05 pm
24 May 2021, 7:45 pm
24 May 2021, 9:27 pm
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So is belief in the resurrection required to be a christian?
I know what I believe about the subject but I would be interested to hear other views.
I know what I believe about the subject but I would be interested to hear other views.
As far as I know, the belief that Jesus died and was dead, for days, and then resurrected, to finally ascend to heaven, is absolutely central to all major branches of Christianity.
I can't speak about minor groups I've never heard of, though.
24 May 2021, 11:30 pm
