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Iowa sees its first legal gay marriage! Woohoo!

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Elemental
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06 Sep 2007, 12:34 pm

EatingPoetry wrote:
Ummm, am I the only person who remembers when it was okay to enslave blacks? Some of you are making an argument for making that possible again. Not everyone thinks blacks are equal or even human. So why should they have others' beliefs- that blacks are human and should not be slaves- imposed on them?


Indeed, at least the slaveholders stood to personally lose something--the homophobic argument doesn't even have that defence.

(and before someone brings up a badly researched socioeconomic argument, explain in great detail why the countries and regions that do allow gay marriage have not suffered a meltdown)

But it is a good comparison. The "you're oppressing my right to be a bigot!" argument is laughable.

Still, things like this are little steps forward, chips out of the wall. I hope that in a few decades, forbidding marriage on the basis of gender will be looked back on like bear baiting or segregation--as a strange, uncivilised habit of the past that we are better off without.



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06 Sep 2007, 1:43 pm

JoeCapricorn wrote:
Deus_ex_machina wrote:
JoeCapricorn wrote:
greenblue wrote:
But some of them love the sinner, but hate the sin.


If the sin is a part of ones being - just like say... skin color - it's the same thing as hating the sinner.

So basically anyone who says "Hate the sin, love the sinner" is still saying, "I hate gays."


The sin is sex with their own sex, not actually being gay.


In that case, hating the act of homosexual sex isn't the same as hating the sexual orientation, (the latter of which is like hating someone's skin color)...

But with all of these hate groups trying to change sexual orientation (The ex-gay movement...) it seems to hint that hating the sin of homosexuality entails hating the feelings of homosexuality, not the act of homosexual sex.

Also,
There are a lot of homosexual couples that wait until marriage to engage in sex - not legal marriage, religious marriage, as many do get married in churches, but the government will hatefully discriminate against them by not denying them a marriage license. Does that mean they are no longer sinning because they waited until marriage to engage in sex?


Sorry for not responding right away, I have stuff to do sometimes.

What does hating a sexual act have to do with hate groups? I mean I know people like tangents on here but really this is going to far, though not as far as that other Thread.

How should I know?


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06 Sep 2007, 1:47 pm

Todd489 wrote:
Jeez, why do people always have to argue over this? Can't we just be happy for the married couple?

I mean, life is too short to be lived with pointless restrictions. If someone could be happy by marrying a person of the same sex, then by all means let them. It doesn't hurt them or anyone else, and it makes them happy. That's pretty much what the whole "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" thing is all about.


Because nothing is simple. Now stop paradoxically arguing that arguments shouldn't be had! It's weird.


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06 Sep 2007, 1:53 pm

Hadron wrote:
JoeCapricorn wrote:
Cyanide wrote:

Actually yes, it would be hard for them to accept such a large change to their cultural structure so suddenly. How would you feel about radical Islam being imposed in the UK? Not happy, I bet.


Or radical Christianity being imposed in America?

If I were to pick the lesser of two evils... I'd go with radical Islam.

You have no idea, do you. Islam would be the equilvalent to going back to the good old Middle Ages.


Oh that's just great, see what happens when I leave for a while? People start making logical, rational, factual statments. I have come to the conclusion that I have some sort of aura of stupidity that attracts 1d6 poorly thought out posts once per day.


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07 Sep 2007, 2:44 am

Maybe if those opposed to gay rights gave up the right to have children at the cost that gays couldnt marry we could solve the biggest problem of all, which is the right of stupid people to reproduce.

In fact I think I would give up a few rights myself if I could stop stupid people from reproducing.

I think the big argument is that it ruins sacntity about marriage or something by letting gays be married. Which is a religious thing, never mind seperation of church and state since its a waste of time to say anything about that (in court you swear on a HOLY BIBLE, our money says in god we trust,) lets just look at the rate of divorce and aldulters among strait couples...woops that looks bad, OH YEAH the bible says gay sex is bad, oh wait it also says that eatting pork is bad, good thing no one eats pig....

Since we some people are talking about their beliefs, lets say I am a hardcore Holy bible loving god worshiper. Do you agree with
Exodus 21:15 - "He who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 21:17 - "He who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 21:2 "If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment.
women should treat men as god and all the wonderful stuff, dont agree?

I would add the all so popular judge not in here but then you get people saying the bible says its ok to judge sins he said where sins. If your going to judge any sin proclaimed by your god then perhaps you should judge all sins in the bible, not just the ones you yourself dont commit :)



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07 Sep 2007, 2:56 am

ahayes wrote:
Morning Star approves.


SHHHHHH!! ! you'll blow my cover.



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07 Sep 2007, 3:25 am

RocheJ wrote:
Maybe if those opposed to gay rights gave up the right to have children at the cost that gays couldnt marry we could solve the biggest problem of all, which is the right of stupid people to reproduce.

In fact I think I would give up a few rights myself if I could stop stupid people from reproducing.

I think the big argument is that it ruins sacntity about marriage or something by letting gays be married. Which is a religious thing, never mind seperation of church and state since its a waste of time to say anything about that (in court you swear on a HOLY BIBLE, our money says in god we trust,) lets just look at the rate of divorce and aldulters among strait couples...woops that looks bad, OH YEAH the bible says gay sex is bad, oh wait it also says that eatting pork is bad, good thing no one eats pig....

Since we some people are talking about their beliefs, lets say I am a hardcore Holy bible loving god worshiper. Do you agree with
Exodus 21:15 - "He who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 21:17 - "He who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 21:2 "If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment.
women should treat men as god and all the wonderful stuff, dont agree?

I would add the all so popular judge not in here but then you get people saying the bible says its ok to judge sins he said where sins. If your going to judge any sin proclaimed by your god then perhaps you should judge all sins in the bible, not just the ones you yourself dont commit :)


More ignorance and more assumptions. Stupid people do not always have stupid children, likewise intelligent people do not always have intelligent children, eugenics is not the answer dimwit.

What a great argument, if you haven't ever actually been in an argument before.

I bet you pulled all that off of a site that makes fun of Christians didn't you? Maybe you should say something that hasn't been said before?

And maybe you should get an idea of what people actually believe, instead of making up people's beliefs as you go along?

So who are you talking to?


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07 Sep 2007, 3:08 pm

Elemental wrote:
EatingPoetry wrote:
Ummm, am I the only person who remembers when it was okay to enslave blacks? Some of you are making an argument for making that possible again. Not everyone thinks blacks are equal or even human. So why should they have others' beliefs- that blacks are human and should not be slaves- imposed on them?


Indeed, at least the slaveholders stood to personally lose something--the homophobic argument doesn't even have that defence.

(and before someone brings up a badly researched socioeconomic argument, explain in great detail why the countries and regions that do allow gay marriage have not suffered a meltdown)

But it is a good comparison. The "you're oppressing my right to be a bigot!" argument is laughable.

Still, things like this are little steps forward, chips out of the wall. I hope that in a few decades, forbidding marriage on the basis of gender will be looked back on like bear baiting or segregation--as a strange, uncivilised habit of the past that we are better off without.


Well what is wrong with people being "bigots"? Ideas can't do harm to you. If they're not committing crimes, what's the big deal? Not to mention most hardcore atheists are "bigots" too....against Christians and the like.

And the religious zealots do think they have something to be losing: the "sanctity" of marriage.



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08 Sep 2007, 11:55 am

Cyanide wrote:
Elemental wrote:
EatingPoetry wrote:
Ummm, am I the only person who remembers when it was okay to enslave blacks? Some of you are making an argument for making that possible again. Not everyone thinks blacks are equal or even human. So why should they have others' beliefs- that blacks are human and should not be slaves- imposed on them?


Indeed, at least the slaveholders stood to personally lose something--the homophobic argument doesn't even have that defence.

(and before someone brings up a badly researched socioeconomic argument, explain in great detail why the countries and regions that do allow gay marriage have not suffered a meltdown)

But it is a good comparison. The "you're oppressing my right to be a bigot!" argument is laughable.

Still, things like this are little steps forward, chips out of the wall. I hope that in a few decades, forbidding marriage on the basis of gender will be looked back on like bear baiting or segregation--as a strange, uncivilised habit of the past that we are better off without.


Well what is wrong with people being "bigots"? Ideas can't do harm to you. If they're not committing crimes, what's the big deal? Not to mention most hardcore atheists are "bigots" too....against Christians and the like.

And the religious zealots do think they have something to be losing: the "sanctity" of marriage.


Ideas can very easily harm you, just not directly. Aside from that I agree with you.


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08 Sep 2007, 7:48 pm

carrotty wrote:
I don't think gay marriage should be allowed. I don't mind if people choose to be gay, but I think its disgusting and the government shouldn't promote these kind of things


Luckily the first amendment guarantees them that right.

You may not like it but people have rights you don't agree with, that's the price of a free society.


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08 Sep 2007, 7:52 pm

carrotty wrote:
I don't think gay marriage should be allowed. I don't mind if people choose to be gay, but I think its disgusting and the government shouldn't promote these kind of things



you just contradicted yourself. you say you don't mind if people choose to be gay but then you say that you think it's disgusting...so which is it?


and on an unrelated point, most people don't choose to be gay.


and do you think that people who partake in bdsm shouldn't be allowed to get married....since you're governing people's sex lives.


or is straight sex okay and doesn't matter how kinky or disgusting it gets?

it's not the government's job to define how people can have sex and what rights you get or don't get depending on how you take your sex.



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08 Sep 2007, 7:59 pm

carrotty wrote:
Flagg wrote:
carrotty wrote:
I don't think gay marriage should be allowed. I don't mind if people choose to be gay, but I think its disgusting and the government shouldn't promote these kind of things


Luckily the first amendment guarantees them that right.

You may not like it but people have rights you don't agree with, that's the price of a free society.

but this is a Christian countrey


No, once again the first amendment bans favoring a religion.


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08 Sep 2007, 9:11 pm

When one human loves another, it makes sense to want to do such a thing. Marriage doesnt belong to the xian faith you know, not to mention its a huge heap of past religions anyway :roll:



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08 Sep 2007, 9:13 pm

Make all marriage extra-legal.
Allow people to enter into contracts
of their own choosing, with one another.

Those belonging to certain faiths can
tailor those contracts to mimic what
their beliefs call 'marriage'



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08 Sep 2007, 9:16 pm

hip_hop_life wrote:
I don't think Gays should get married.....

I think they should, unless they don't really want to, but they all want to have the same rights.


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08 Sep 2007, 11:08 pm

Well I'd like to ad that even though I don't believe in marriage as it is an outdated concept, marriage is not a Christian only thing. All religions have marriages, they just have different ceremonies. I'm sick of hearing Christian conservatives go on about "Marriage is a Christian tradition". It's not a Christian tradition, it's a human tradition. Hell atheists can have atheist weddings.