The "Black Hole" of woke....

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Brilliant answer, FXE.

Regarding bathrooms I suppose Tweety_Pie hasn't used a unisex bathroom before. They're very common now. Most of us don't designate our home bathrooms by gender so why should public bathrooms be different?

Regarding male predators in women's bathrooms, I'm sorry but that's pretty heteronormative. It assumes all men are straight and interested in all women. Do we worry about men assaulting other men in men's washrooms? What if the perp is gay? In fact there's likely been more man-on-man crime in male bathrooms than man-on-woman crime in unisex bathrooms or by transwomen in women's bathrooms. The same could be said of bathrooms only for "women". Women can be gay, and women can be violent. Ever seen Mean Girls or any show about girls being bullied in school bathrooms? Something tells me if boys were in there too, it wouldn't happen.

Yes I have, they were gross. Err, most people don't encounter strangers in their own homes??



I can't answer this.

Why were they gross?

Yes I realise our home bathrooms are usually only big enough for one person at a time, but they're still unisex.
There are also unisex one-stall bathrooms in public (small restaurants, hospitals, etc.)
They're the kind with the "vacant" notice on the door.

The issue some people (women) have with large unisex bathrooms seems to be that someone might hear them doing their business, or heaven forbid smell their business. That goes back to the idea that women aren't supposed to go to the bathroom because it's not feminine.

When women are at home they make sounds and smells and a man might walk in right afterward.

When women visit someone else's home they have to deal with this too.

Everyone survives.

Somehow everyone thinks it's normal for men to make sounds and smells, and they even joke about it for men.
I feel sorry for men being characterised that way.
No one seems to worry about their feelings?

I don't have much against unisex bathrooms....where I work, all bathrooms are unisex, and I don't feel particularly upset about that.

But there is the potential for a man to take advantage of the situation, and violate the privacy of women in the bathroom.

I have seen plenty of cases of men putting mirrors in the stalls of woman's bathrooms in order to watch them "go." I haven't seen any women putting a mirror in a men's bathroom stall watching men "go."

I've worked as a cleaner and one of the things I learned very quickly was that all public bathrooms are gross. Male, female, unisex, family, etc. They're all gross and there's no strong predictor of an especially gross one.

That doesn't make sense.
They put a mirror in women's bathrooms?
That means the bathrooms are gendered.
How can they see the mirror if it's in a bathroom just for women?

If it's the unisex bathroom how do they know who will go into which cubicle?

I'm talking about bathrooms in general, not where I work.

Men go into women's bathrooms, place mirrors in the stalls, and videotape women "doing their business." I've seen plenty of cases of this. The crime is called "Criminal Surveillance."

I see the potential for this to happen in unisex if men, claiming they are transwomen, are given access to a woman's-only bathroom.

Of course, this could happen in a unisex bathroom, too.

Oh OK, with video.
You didn't mention cameras.
You just said "mirrors" so I was confused.

Couldn't a predator do that regardless of what type of bathroom it is? (Women's / Unisex)?

If anything it makes me think Unisex would be safer since the perps wouldn't target those stalls.

Guys use mirrors, as well as cameras.

Guys use mirrors sometimes when they're watching a woman go up stairs; men have been caught doing this in the subway.

Yup. Upskirting.

I have a photo of my uncle upskirting my grandmother.




Sorry it's so red. ^


Again, that doesn't mean women can't be called women.
It doesn't mean women are losing rights due to "wokeism", either.

So basically, what you're saying is that you're entitled to shutdown people by dismissing them as mentally ill, but you don't like to have your opinions dismissed by describing them for what they are?



How is it name-calling when it's objectively true? How would you describe people who seek to exclude transpeople except as trans-exclusionary? It just comes off like trying to play the victim while actually being the aggressor and personally, I've got no tolerance for that sort of manipulative behaviour, having been subjected to it plenty in my life.

It's like me complaining if someone calls me a socialist. Even if they use it as an insult, I am, it's true and I can't act like it's unreasonable. If you openly advocate for treating transwomen as not-women you're trans-exclusionary and no amount of crocodile tears will change that.



Go on, make your case if you can. How has harassment against transwomen helped reduce the number of sexual assaults against women? Have transwomen been connected to an increase in sexual assaults in bathrooms? Where has an effective policy to address this concern been introduced?

Personally, I feel like anything that makes cis-men feel entitled to walk into a woman's bathroom while harassing a woman is harmful to women, even if the woman being victimized is trans.

Do you think it's only women who feel encouraged to harass some women over this concern?
https://www.salon.com/2016/05/03/men_ar ... ecting_us/
Do you think it's only transwomen who are harassed?
https://www.vox.com/2016/5/18/11690234/ ... harassment

How does that help women, exactly?



For starters, I've been making blanket statements based on a long history of observing these sorts of posts and what's consistently revealed as motivations over time.

But, while we're playing this game, where did I place words in your mouth?
I merely described already documented outcomes associated with what you advocate for. You don't need to express a desire for those outcomes, they're inevitable results of trans-exclusionary ideology. The only way to address those results is to address the ideology that encourages them.



I'm gonna stick to calling a spade a spade, thanks.



Which facts have you discussed? You've discussed your opinions regarding transpeople, none of which are factual in nature. Your opinions are baseless so attempting to pretend they're facts is dishonest.

If you'd like to have this discussion while leaving out emotions we can try again but you might struggle to express your concerns without relying upon emotions over facts since you've offered no facts so far, just emotion driven opinions.

Last edited by funeralxempire on 26 Aug 2022, 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

While it's a hypothetical possibility, has it been documented as occurring?

But beyond that, men might molest a boy in the men's room but we don't ban men from the men's room as a result.
There's areas where we decide the risks are minimal enough to continue protecting people's privacy.

Yes, it has occurred. I work in the courts. I've seen cases like this.

Like I said, I'm not really against unisex bathrooms, or allowing someone who is a transperson to use the bathroom of the opposite of the person's birth sex.

Never once in my life has someone asked to see my birth certificate before letting me use the bathroom. There is no need for me to “claim to be trans”. Someone who wants to prey on the women’s toilets doesn’t need an excuse.

Unless you’re my doctor (and I’m complaining about a urogenital issue) or my partner, then my genitals are none of your business.

If you start aggressively policing people’s gender, then actually trans people are a minority of those who will be negatively affected. They’re outnumbered by cis women who look a bit masculine, and cis men who look a bit feminine. Anyone vaguely gender non-conforming will be at risk of being asked to “prove” their gender. Personally, I don’t want that.

Yes. ^

Maybe we should put the focus on criminals when crime occurs, instead of judging innocent people as "potential criminals" or restricting their basic human right to eliminate.

Basic safety should be implemented everywhere.
Put cameras outside the bathroom to see who is going in / out.
Don't erase the tape every hour.
This can be used by LE in conjunction with forensics, if a crime occurs.

Right, because you're approaching from the sort of logic used in the second part of that comment.

Being able to point to a very limited set of examples that appear to have been covered by existing laws already is more of an argument that nothing needs to be changed, compared to 'omg, this is an emergency, everyone panic'.

It's clear you're in the not advocating for everyone to freak out camp. I'm trying to pick apart what might actually make a case for freaking out, just in case maybe there is a good case I've missed because I was focused on picking apart bad ones.