Page 4 of 9 [ 142 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 9  Next

MissMary227
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 339

13 Jan 2023, 8:41 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
MissMary227 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

Why should anything/anyone regardless of how innocent they are have a right to use someones body without consent of that person?


It's called the circle of life. Have you had sex ed yet? :)


Yes, I have, have you taken basic biology.


Cuz I am happy to teach you. :wink:


_________________
Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.~Philippians 2:3


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,911
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

13 Jan 2023, 8:43 am

MissMary227 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
MissMary227 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

Why should anything/anyone regardless of how innocent they are have a right to use someones body without consent of that person?


It's called the circle of life. Have you had sex ed yet? :)


Yes, I have, have you taken basic biology.


Cuz I am happy to teach you. :wink:


I think I will pass on the abstinence only lecture...but thanks anyways.


_________________
We won't go back.


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

13 Jan 2023, 8:44 am

MissMary227 wrote:
Interesting. I have always felt that I wanted to look at the big picture, beyond what my personal feelings were, to right and wrong, not my waffling right and wrong; but to think about what is right objectively. Because what we feel personally is more prone to manipulation and variables, but what we can think about absolute truth lifts us out of ourselves and helps to find a common denominator that all people can live by more ethically. No?
No because our minds are just as limited and prone to manipulation as our feelings. Even with theoretically perfect logical reasoning (extremely rare), we know very little about the world, our imagination and intuition is limited to what we have experienced and we very easily overlook important factors. Not to mention all the cognitive biases.

To get possibly best picture, we need both the big picture and how details fit within it.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


MissMary227
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 339

13 Jan 2023, 8:51 am

magz wrote:
MissMary227 wrote:
Interesting. I have always felt that I wanted to look at the big picture, beyond what my personal feelings were, to right and wrong, not my waffling right and wrong; but to think about what is right objectively. Because what we feel personally is more prone to manipulation and variables, but what we can think about absolute truth lifts us out of ourselves and helps to find a common denominator that all people can live by more ethically. No?
No because our minds are just as limited and prone to manipulation as our feelings. Even with theoretically perfect logical reasoning, we know very little about the world, our imagination and intuition is limited to what we have experienced and we very easily overlook important factors.

To get possibly best picture, we need both the big picture and how details fit within it.


I believe that the word of God in its original language is the perfect way to live, for everyone. I strive to interpret it perfectly and to share what I learn with others. Along the way I try to incorporate real-life examples and analogies to our modern life since it is an ancient text and things progress and change in some ways. But overall Truth never changes. That is the dichotomous ideology that is hard for folks to most understand maybe. That life changes from generation to generation yet Truth never does change.

For myself? I have never had a peace about abortion even when I was an atheist. Even before I knew God, I knew abortion was wrong. I love getting pregnant and being pregnant and birthing. And I think the world needs more children, not less. Be fruitful and multiply was one of the first commandments of God, if not THE first.


_________________
Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.~Philippians 2:3


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

13 Jan 2023, 8:56 am

MissMary227 wrote:
magz wrote:
MissMary227 wrote:
Interesting. I have always felt that I wanted to look at the big picture, beyond what my personal feelings were, to right and wrong, not my waffling right and wrong; but to think about what is right objectively. Because what we feel personally is more prone to manipulation and variables, but what we can think about absolute truth lifts us out of ourselves and helps to find a common denominator that all people can live by more ethically. No?
No because our minds are just as limited and prone to manipulation as our feelings. Even with theoretically perfect logical reasoning, we know very little about the world, our imagination and intuition is limited to what we have experienced and we very easily overlook important factors.

To get possibly best picture, we need both the big picture and how details fit within it.


I believe that the word of God in its original language is the perfect way to live, for everyone. I strive to interpret it perfectly and to share what I learn with others. Along the way I try to incorporate real-life examples and analogies to our modern life since it is an ancient text and things progress and change in some ways. But overall Truth never changes. That is the dichotomous ideology that is hard for folks to most understand maybe. That life changes from generation to generation yet Truth never does change.
Fine. These are your beliefs.

MissMary227 wrote:
I have never had a peace about abortion even when I was an atheist.
I find every abortion a tragedy - but we can't prevent one tragedy by causing another one.

MissMary227 wrote:
I love getting pregnant and being pregnant and birthing.
How many pregnancies have you gone through and how many children are you raising?
Was any of them problematic? In what ways?


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


MissMary227
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 339

13 Jan 2023, 9:02 am

magz wrote:
Fine. These are your beliefs.


They should be everyone's beliefs, as they are biblical.

Quote:
I find every abortion a tragedy - but we can't prevent one tragedy by causing another one.


Exactly.

Quote:
How many pregnancies have you gone through and how many children are you raising?
Was any of them problematic? In what ways?


I don't feel like talking about that right now, sorry. :|

Do you want to talk about yours? I love hearing birth stories....


_________________
Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.~Philippians 2:3


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

13 Jan 2023, 9:16 am

MissMary227 wrote:
magz wrote:
Fine. These are your beliefs.
They should be everyone's beliefs, as they are biblical.
They aren't everyone's beliefs and being bibilical is a worthless argument for anyone who doesn't share these beliefs.
What now?

MissMary227 wrote:
Quote:
How many pregnancies have you gone through and how many children are you raising?
Was any of them problematic? In what ways?
I don't feel like talking about that right now, sorry. :|
Without any details - any?

MissMary227 wrote:
Do you want to talk about yours? I love hearing birth stories....
I talk about my children all over the site, when it's relevant to the thread. Here, I can tell as much: I had two easy pregnancies and childbirths, without complications. My family situation is comfortable, the babies were welcome, even if not exactly planned. Still, the toll on my body was significant and raising special need children is costing me more than I can spare without taking significant harm, in particular on my overall health.
The experience of being a mother was something I couldn't imagine before despite seeing it from very close distance.
Yes, I literally give my body to my children. It's something I can't compare to anything experienced before.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


MissMary227
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 339

13 Jan 2023, 9:37 am

magz wrote:
They aren't everyone's beliefs and being bibilical is a worthless argument for anyone who doesn't share these beliefs.
What now?


You are welcome to come to church with me, or begin dialoguing with me about the bible and God, if you like. Otherwise, I will pray for you to know God.

Quote:
The experience of being a mother was something I couldn't imagine before despite seeing it from very close distance.
Yes, I literally give my body to my children. It's something I can't compare to anything experienced before.


I wholeheartedly agree! And that is some of my point as well.....pregnancy is a sacrifice, but it brings a reward you could never imagine. Even if the woman herself never gets to revel in that feeling, the child will be grateful for being born, not to mention the family who adopted them.


_________________
Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.~Philippians 2:3


Mikah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Age: 37
Posts: 3,201
Location: England

13 Jan 2023, 9:43 am

magz wrote:
Mikah wrote:
Aborted children are innocent
They have no morality at all yet - they only exist at the expense of their mothers' bodies (just like entirely wanted babies-to-be-born do, btw).

Raising children, I often laugh at the idea of "innocent children". Children are to learn morality yet.


That's innocence in its purest form, to not know good or evil.

Sweetleaf wrote:
Why should anything/anyone regardless of how innocent they are have a right to use someones body without consent of that person? Granted embros/fetuses are neutral not 'bad' or 'innocent' just there to syphon resources from the body they impregnated till they becomes a baby and is ready to be born.


The child acquires that right from the same place you derive your right, if any, not to starve or die of exposure when it could be easily prevented. If you don't think humans should have this right - then I had no idea you were such a radical libertarian anarchist and this a more interesting conversation than I thought.


_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

13 Jan 2023, 9:50 am

Mikah wrote:
magz wrote:
Mikah wrote:
Aborted children are innocent
They have no morality at all yet - they only exist at the expense of their mothers' bodies (just like entirely wanted babies-to-be-born do, btw).

Raising children, I often laugh at the idea of "innocent children". Children are to learn morality yet.
That's innocence in its purest form, to not know good or evil.
Mosquitos are innocent in the purest form of innocence :mrgreen:


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

13 Jan 2023, 9:54 am

MissMary227 wrote:
magz wrote:
They aren't everyone's beliefs and being bibilical is a worthless argument for anyone who doesn't share these beliefs.
What now?
You are welcome to come to church with me, or begin dialoguing with me about the bible and God, if you like. Otherwise, I will pray for you to know God.
We weren't talking about me but about everyone. In particular, about laws that apply to everyone.

MissMary227 wrote:
pregnancy is a sacrifice
Is it moral to force people to sacrifice themselves?
A serious question going well beyond this topic.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


Mikah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Age: 37
Posts: 3,201
Location: England

13 Jan 2023, 10:41 am

magz wrote:
Mosquitos are innocent in the purest form of innocence :mrgreen:


Please, continue this line of argument. I am curious where it leads.


_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

13 Jan 2023, 10:43 am

Mikah wrote:
magz wrote:
Mosquitos are innocent in the purest form of innocence :mrgreen:
Please, continue this line of argument. I am curious where it leads.
It's not really interesting.
I simply reject your claim that not having any morality is the purest form of innocence. Mosquitos are a classical counter-example.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


MissMary227
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 339

13 Jan 2023, 10:47 am

magz wrote:
We weren't talking about me but about everyone. In particular, about laws that apply to everyone.


Forgive me in advance for my cheekiness :D but were not you the one who said we should argue from a personal place?

Quote:
Is it moral to force people to sacrifice themselves?
A serious question going well beyond this topic.


Funny. :) Yes, it is moral to sacrifice oneself. Not moral to force one to though.


_________________
Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.~Philippians 2:3


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

13 Jan 2023, 10:51 am

MissMary227 wrote:
magz wrote:
We weren't talking about me but about everyone. In particular, about laws that apply to everyone.
Forgive me in advance for my cheekiness :D but were not you the one who said we should argue from a personal place?
Share your personal experiences on the topic, then.

MissMary227 wrote:
Quote:
Is it moral to force people to sacrifice themselves?
A serious question going well beyond this topic.


Funny. :) Yes, it is moral to sacrifice oneself. Not moral to force one to though.
Agreed.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


MissMary227
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 339

13 Jan 2023, 10:55 am

magz wrote:
Share your personal experiences on the topic, then.


I just do not feel like this is the place for that? Maybe another thread or something. Thank you for your interest though. :heart:


_________________
Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.~Philippians 2:3