What type of people allow a 5 year old to transition!?

Post Reply New Topic

I've noticed that transgenderism has become too much a matter for political debate. It's kind of strange. I mean what is the percentage of people with gender dysphoria?

It’s very small.

In recent years there has been a huge surge in open transphobia. It really sucks. Part of this is the usual Russian interference. Part of it, apparently, is the American religious right realising that they’ve lost the argument on gay rights and want to find a new cause to rally around, and then export to the rest of the West.

No one allows 5 year olds to transition. The standard of care is to take a wait and see with children, and just let them dress any way they want.

It is only at puberty that transition really can become an issue.

Because in my personal experience the transgenderism issue is being politicised by the left. Conservatives just don't care about it, they mostly consider it a matter of mental illness, which it is. Gender dysphoria as well as body dysphoria are mental illnesses. It was the left who made it a political issue by pushing for hate speech laws that seek to make "misgendering" a criminal offence, this clashes against freedom of speech and it was normal that people both on the right and moderate left backlash against it. You are blaming the backlash but you forget who initiated it. Also transgenderism within the context of woke politics is different from body dysphoria. While gender dysphoria represents a very small percentage of the talotal polpulation, youth that seem to identify other than male or female is on the decimal petcentiles. This is a trend encouraged by the left. The rest of us are just refusing the lunacy, and then people like you come allong and assert that we are the ones to make it a big deal. Frankly we don't care, but we will be there to stop the lunacy if it's going to be imposed on us.

Last edited by Dengashinobi on 24 Jan 2023, 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think it's common to allow a child that age to identify as a gender other than their "birth-assigned" gender. I don't know if that would be considered "transitioning".

Wait, so it isn't an issue to baselessly paint people as mentally ill and to insist you know who they are better than they know who they are?

Like a lot of issues, the left has become more tolerant more quickly than the right, but ultimately it's not a leftist issue and I'm sure the right-leaning transgender posters on here get tired of their ideological allies constantly sh*****g on them.

Also, most of the time woke is just a pejorative conservatives use to describe anything they can't make a solid argument against.

Who I'm sh*****g on them? Is the word "illness" a strong word? What is the politically correct term for "mental illness" so I can use it in the future?

I agree with you entirely, conservatives love to use these fearmongering distracting tactics to distract people from what they really want which is control over people, be that trans people, women, gay people, etc.

Conservatives believe in government small enough to fit into a woman's vagina.

Last edited by Canadian1911 on 24 Jan 2023, 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

There's no way to make you're crazy for believing yourself to be who you believe yourself to be not insulting.

If I described your views and understanding of the world as a product of mental illness, you'd be offended.
If I described your understanding of yourself as a product of mental illness, you'd be offended.

There wouldn't be a superficial change I can make to that opinion to make it not offensive to you, because the opinion itself is the problem, not how it's worded.

There isn't a way to express that opinion that won't be insulting to the people you're dismissing as having an inherently invalid understanding of themselves.

The medical establishment doesn't agree with the stance you've taken, even if they once did. You can insist that this is due to political correctness but ultimately it's just a matter of correctness. They've learned, not everyone chooses to learn.

^ In the same vein, autism is still viewed as a mental illness by some. It will take some time before the majority see transgender as a difference. I believe most of the 'actual mental illness' that transgender people have is due to social stigma which I'm sure a lot here can relate to.

What about psychosis? Should we validate the worldview of a psychotic person? Should we tell them that there is actually a world wide conspiracy against them? Should we tell the that their neigbors are spying on them and that the TV stations are sending them cryptic messages? Should we pass hate speech laws that criminalise people who contest such believes in order to affirm their own sanity?

With what stance does the medical establishment agree? Can you expand on that?

"They've learned, not everyone chooses to learn". What does this mean?

Last edited by Dengashinobi on 24 Jan 2023, 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Then why statistical analysis shows that suicide in people with gender dysphoria increases the more supportive the social environment is?

They've learned refers to the medical establishment compared to the population at large.

Medical professionals are often forced to accept science has changed even if they supported the losing side of the discussion earlier.
The average bloke can just ignore information that contradicts with how they'd like things to work.

Psychosis is a good topic to bring up, and (not that I'd expect you to research what I've said before) something I have actually commented on, in particular in the context of gangstalking delusions.

One needs to consider the potential for harms, but also consider if the person is of sound mind.

Say with gangstalking delusions, those hurt both the person suffering (as far as they're concerned it's all real), but also have the potential to cause more severe harms to a community (they start stockpiling weapons for an active defence and then act towards that goal).

Lots of little disconnects with reality will present, typically. Holding one disagreeable position usually doesn't indicate psychosis, even if it's a pretty significant one.

Gender dysphoria on it's own really doesn't call into question if one is of sound mind. They can still demonstrate they're connected to reality. Typically they've got one core issue they don't agree with some others on, and resolving that issue is usually a positive for their overall mental health.

Other than the very broad 'these types of people both hold understandings I don't consider real' the two aren't really able to be directly compared. Psychosis tends to impair one's ability to function within society, being trans... not so much, so long as society is willing to allow them to function. Being discriminated against might make one unable to function in society, but the blame isn't on that person, it's on those who discriminate against them.

In particular, if you want a society to receive the most benefits possible from those individuals, ensuring they face as little discrimination as possible is part of how that is achieved.

Do you have a link to that statistical analysis? I'd be interested in reading it.

Can you explain further what is specifically the stance of the medical community on this matter and how has it changed?

Both two conditions have some elements in common. In both cases the individual has a perception detatched from reality. Psychosis is about the world, gender dysphoria is about the self. In the case of psychosis you said that the individual tends not to function within society (which is not entiprely true, some people with psychosis can function in society with their difficulties of course) and it is not society's fault. In the case of gender dysphoria , you say that they can function (also not true as you will read bellow) but It's society's fault.

I understand what you are trying to convey. I will draw your attention the other way arround. You are asking an entire society to accommodate some people's perception that is not in line with reality. To the society the task is similar as to accommodating people with any other form of perception that is not in line with reality, like psychosis. You are telling the entire society to 'act' as if that is the case. But how much can they act? Will men stretch their acting as to date transgender women? At that point the acting begins to trespass reality. What about a transgender woman competing in female sports like MMA for example? Will women athletes stretch their acting as to accept having the s**t beeing kicked out of them? That's why it is universally important that a society sticks to reality as much as possible, because it's hard wired to it.

Also, statistical analysis shows that suicide attempts increase in people with gender dysphoria the more supportive the social environment is.

If prepubescent kids are allowed to transition then that would be a serious problem with me. Personally I have a problem with anyone under 20 transitioning.

I think autism, bullying, being unable to fit in and gender identity confusion are strongly linked and I would want someone to become a full adult before they make any rash changes. I think that a lot of people who transition do so because they simply don't fit in well and can't form close bonds with their male or female peers, making them assume they're the wrong gender when in reality it might just be autism or bullying causing issues with identifying with same gendered peers.