Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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Pepe
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21 Feb 2023, 6:57 pm

slam_thunderhide wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Even Ukrainian refugees who should be grateful for being given refuge in the UK are demanding seperate accomodation and schooling from black and muslim communities in the UK

I live in the UK, and I don't blame Ukranian refugees for feeling that way.

It's amazing that even in a thread about the Russia-Ukraine conflict, you still want to shift the focus on to black and brown 'victimhood', while you attack white people for the 'crime' of preferring to live around people who are more similar to themselves.

It honestly sickens me that you come out with this filth and then act as if you have the moral high ground.

OUCH.

But I wish cyberdad would be more balanced.

Pepe
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21 Feb 2023, 7:27 pm

cyberdad wrote:

slam_thunderhide wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Even Ukrainian refugees who should be grateful for being given refuge in the UK are demanding seperate accomodation and schooling from black and muslim communities in the UK

I don't see why I need to pay 30-40% more for my cost of living to support these Ukrainians when they don't deserve it. I also wonder what is so special about them when there are other people suffering in the world.

The bigger picture is that it has to be seen that pootin can't get away with breaches of international law.
Other countries might/will think twice about acting unlawfully.
What happens in Ukraine will make the CCP consider the consequences of attacking Taiwan.

Also:
I think you place too much blame on Ukraine, regarding world economic problems.
Things went south before the Ukraine tragedy started.
COVID, remember?

Pepe
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21 Feb 2023, 7:40 pm

cyberdad wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

I didn't sense any nazism or fullfledge racism here, they're just a nation not used to ethnical diversity at all, indeed Ukraine is very white. They remind me of Japan.

Here's what a Ukrainian journalist wrote of the spread of the far right in Ukraine
Far-right radicals and extremist street activities are having a serious impact on everyday life and societal development in the country. Particularly worrying is their use of violence in an attempt to restrict the expression of views they consider unacceptable in Ukraine.
https://freedomhouse.org/report/analyti ... -democracy

He goes on to say -those interested in the democratic development of Ukraine, including human rights activists and experts, should draw public and media attention to the real and existing problem of far-right extremism. Civil society should form a broad coalition in support of groups and activists who are being attacked by the far right. Regardless of people’s attitudes toward the ideologies of groups attacked by radicals, they have the right to freely express their opinions.

Well, I think we know who to blame for the increased nationalism in the Ukraine:

Quote:

For the first 20 years of Ukrainian independence, far-right groups had been undisputedly marginal elements in society. But over the last few years, the situation has changed. After Ukraine’s 2014 Euromaidan Revolution and Russia’s subsequent aggression, extreme nationalist views and groups, along with their preachers and propagandists, have been granted significant legitimacy by the wider society.

https://freedomhouse.org/report/analyti ... -democracy

Pepe
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21 Feb 2023, 7:42 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Are they really worse than other Eastern European nations, such as Russia, Poland, Czech Republic, Georgia, Romania, Hungary, Serbia ...etc?

These nations have been quite known for...racism. And correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the Far right on the rise in many western countries as well?

Let me answer that...
Yes...

Pepe
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21 Feb 2023, 7:43 pm

DuckHairback wrote:

magz wrote:

^ It's totally in our self-centered interest to support Ukraine right now - because the sooner it stops the safer we - West neighbours of Russia - are.

I agree with this. Ukraine is fighting a proxy war on behalf of the whole of Europe and paying a mighty price for it. We have no business begrudging them any means to do this and if they succeed in holding back Russia and the whole fiasco doesn't descend into global conflict, we'll continue to owe them a debt for our lifetimes.

But it isn't even just Europe. China is watching this play out closely and the result will have a massive impact on their foreign policy for the future. Expansionist, authoritarian regimes need to see this fail, and badly, if geopolitics is going to settle down a bit.

We are privileged to be able to pay for this war in money, not our lives.

Bingo!

Pepe
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21 Feb 2023, 7:45 pm

Trueno wrote:

Back on track with this comment. Totally agree.

I totally agree with your total agreement. :mrgreen:

Pepe
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21 Feb 2023, 7:57 pm

cyberdad wrote:

That Ukrainians who are also refugees demand apartheid when seeking refuge is perhaps an indication of a more widespread problem in ethnonationalism that has not been resolved since WWII when Ukraine openly sided with the Nazis

I wonder if Stalin's Holodomor had something to do with that?

Quote:

Stalin’s famine: a brief history of the Holodomor in Soviet Ukraine

The Holodomor, or “murder by starvation”, was a state-engineered famine in Soviet Ukraine in 1932–33 which killed an estimated 3.9 million people. Devised by the Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, the Holodomor crushed the spirit of the Ukrainian peasantry and ensured it would never again rebel against communist rule on the scale seen in the 1920s & 1930s

https://www.historyextra.com/period/20t ... ide-cause/

BTW, On my travels I found this:

Quote:

What was Stalin's Dekulakization?
Image result for Stalin's holomous
Dekulakization (Russian: раскулачивание, raskulachivanie; Ukrainian: розкуркулення, rozkurkulennia) was the Soviet campaign of political repressions, including arrests, deportations, or executions of millions of kulaks (prosperous peasants) and their families.

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... s+holomous

Sound familiar?

Mate, you really should not be a fan of communism, based on its history of abuse...
But I have no expectations of changing your mind.

Pepe
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21 Feb 2023, 8:04 pm

magz wrote:

Geez... in the last elections, far right in Ukraine took whole 2% votes. That's much less than in many West European countries.
There was an incident of (likely Kremlin-sponsored) "nationalists" who attacked non-European refugees in Poland - and they were universally condemned, arrested and jailed.
We have our problems but systemic racism here is not worse than in most of Western countries - in some aspects likely lower because of our generally exogamous culture.

But apparently you just want to believe in pootin's fairy-tales about "nazis taking over".

That is a valid consideration, IMO.
Recently, there has been suspected Russian agitation in Moldova that destabilised the government, iirc.
I don't know that much about it, but social sabotage is an obvious tactic in international politics.
And, after all, it was a Russian trademark in Ukraine and Belarus.

Quote:

Moldovan President Maia Sandu has called for "maximum vigilance" after receiving documents from the Ukrainian intelligence services that she said showed that Russia planned to destabilize Moldova by using agents provocateurs to attack government buildings under the guise of public protests.

https://www.rferl.org/a/moldova-russia- ... 69120.html

Pepe
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22 Feb 2023, 4:26 am

Quote:

Polish teachers, farmers, bankers are joining the military. Here's why
CNN
14.8M subscribers
173,449 views Feb 22, 2023 #CNN #News
CNN's Kaitlan Collins reports from a military base in Warsaw, Poland, where civilians are learning to become soldiers. A banker, a high school student, and an aspiring opera singer are among dozens dressed in military uniform, practicing their shooting stance, working through tactical drills, and learning how to communicate on a battlefield. #CNN #News

The_Walrus
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22 Feb 2023, 10:30 am

cyberdad wrote:

What…

This is like saying that France “openly sided with the Nazis”.

Ukraine was conquered by the Nazis. People who openly resisted were executed. Both Soviets and Ukrainian nationalists initially engaged with limited collaboration, before switching to guerrilla warfare against the Germans. Millions of Ukrainians died (about 1 in 6) and millions more were left homeless (1 in 3) or were displaced.

Today, Ukraine is led by a Jewish president, being gay is legal nationwide, and the far-right got 2% of the vote in the last election. Everyone who was an adult

Trying to paint it like it’s a bigger Hungary is misplaced. By the same token, it isn’t the Netherlands either, it’s still Eastern Europe. But it isn’t some hotbed of Nazism.

Highlander852456
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22 Feb 2023, 10:58 am

https://www.americamagazine.org/politic ... lain-sight

The_Face_of_Boo
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22 Feb 2023, 11:23 am

It is kinda laughable to accuse the Ukraine president of being pro-nazi while he is Jew. Also the fact that the elected president is Jew… well.. doesn’t fit much with the “most ukrainians are nazi” narrative.

magz
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22 Feb 2023, 11:29 am

^^ The date of this article is October 2016. Quite a few things have happened since then.

USA does not have a perfect record (show me a country that has), but posting the title today puts it pretty much out of context. The article talks about things that are largely closed history today.
Also, it's just one voice in a broader discussion - it takes only one interpretation of one element of international law and ignores the whole topic of ISIS, its crimes against humanity and seriousness of international dangers connected to its rise, it also ignores the whole mosaic of allies and partners USA have collected all over the world.
It has its point but it's far from balanced - and definitely outdated.

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Highlander852456
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22 Feb 2023, 4:24 pm

Quote:

Sets bad example to break international law, and expect your enemies to uphold, the very law.
Iraq war was internationally condemned. No one wanted the war except US. Everyone voted against it.
We live in a world where countries that have power don't uphold the very laws they profess to uphold.
That is not a joke, but reality.
That is just fact. Not a belief.

Highlander852456
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22 Feb 2023, 4:35 pm

https://truthout.org/articles/chomsky-2 ... ional-law/

WimKoning
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22 Feb 2023, 4:36 pm

Looking forward to world war 4 being fought with sticks and stones.

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