The dangers of Atheism

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IsabellaLinton
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27 Apr 2023, 9:47 pm

cathylynn wrote:

i am an atheist. my husband died in september and is no more at all. i am beyond sad. i still live to love myself, other sentient creatures, and this fragile world. i took a walk today and enjoyed the blossoming of spring and the motions of small creatures. nothing bleak about that

{{{ hugs cathylynn }}}.
I"m so sorry to hear of your loss. I'd been wondering about you both.
Spring is a very beautiful thing, so I hope it helps somewhat.

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Fnord
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27 Apr 2023, 10:19 pm

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Then your thread might be better off with the subject line "The Dangers of Atheism and Religion".

No, because the that is outside the scope of this thread.

Which is, "Denounce Anything That Does Not Fit In With Lecia_Wynter's World View".

cathylynn
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27 Apr 2023, 10:30 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:

cathylynn wrote:

{{{ hugs cathylynn }}}.
I"m so sorry to hear of your loss. I'd been wondering about you both.
Spring is a very beautiful thing, so I hope it helps somewhat.

thank you, isabella.

Lecia_Wynter
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30 Apr 2023, 5:30 am

ToughDiamond wrote:

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

Quote:

Then your thread might be better off with the subject line "The Dangers of Atheism and Religion".

No, because the that is outside the scope of this thread.

It doesn't make sense to me, to try to examine the downside of atheism (i.e. not being a theist) in an absolute way. It would be like trying to assess the downside of not collecting stamps without referring to the effect of collecting stamps. Or have I misunderstood what you want to do here?

No because people that don't know the downside of organized religion are not worth talking to.

Quote:

Which is, "Denounce Anything That Does Not Fit In With Lecia_Wynter's World View".

No the real reason is because talking about the downside of organized religion is extremely boring explored territory. Its old hat and talked about thousands of times online already.

beady
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30 Apr 2023, 6:49 am

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

^ Atheism - the absence of belief in a deity - is not new at all.

And once again, your conception of atheism does not reflect everyone else’s.

Atheism is a relatively new social phenomenon. There were hardly any atheists in the 1800s and they were closeted and kept it to themselves. Not like today with lots of open atheism.

Quote:

And once again, your conception of atheism does not reflect everyone else’s.

Deep down the core of atheism is consume and reproduce. Poems of celebrity atheists are just window dressing padded by fame and fortune. When all is going good, they talk about how humans are made of star stuff and dancing molecules (I don't see how that appeals to the average person btw. Seems more geared towards meganerds.) Alright, but what about the atheist in crisis? Either they pray to a god they don't believe in or they go to the core of atheism, consume and reproduce. All the time online I hear atheists talk about how humans are just an accident, consciousness was caused by a virus, there is no purpose to life besides to consume and spread genetic material... etc. You know what the difference is between those atheists and the celebrity atheists? The celebrity atheists have lives that are going right, things working out for them. And the others have a life that's not going so well.

Many atheists that are not famous might disagree with your blanket assessment that their lives are “not going so well.”
The original post sounds like a view of atheism only from a religious perspective.

Atheism has existed before during and after - fear has controlled its expression.
Life is full of passion, creativity, learning, exploration, celebration etc etc etc: this is much more than consume and reproduce.

The defense of the original premise does not become stronger by repetition.

Lecia_Wynter
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30 Apr 2023, 6:52 am

beady wrote:

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

^ Atheism - the absence of belief in a deity - is not new at all.

And once again, your conception of atheism does not reflect everyone else’s.

Atheism is a relatively new social phenomenon. There were hardly any atheists in the 1800s and they were closeted and kept it to themselves. Not like today with lots of open atheism.

Quote:

And once again, your conception of atheism does not reflect everyone else’s.

Atheism has become mainstream in the past 50 years. Otherwise closeted. Maybe its this way because its still new, fresh and has vigor. Or maybe because the atheists were raised in a Christian society that piggybacked that vigor onto them.

But what about in 200 years when humans have spread to solar systems? What is the core tenat of atheism? What strong shared motives and motifs will be throughout the galaxy? What unifying principles? Maybe it just becomes yet another dystopian sci-fi space opera full of gangs, slavers and ruthless capitalists.

Why did atheist nations of the past, such as Japan, have gods and spirits? Where were the fully atheist nations? Could there be a possible reason for that?

Last edited by Lecia_Wynter on 30 Apr 2023, 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

RetroGamer87
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30 Apr 2023, 6:54 am

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

For the atheist, truth is a currency in of itself. Truth is the highest currency, truth is the reward in of itself. Truth trumps all things and all must be educated of the truth.

Yeah! Why do atheists love the truth so much? Isn't that discrimination against frauds and liars?

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Lecia_Wynter
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30 Apr 2023, 6:56 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

For the atheist, truth is a currency in of itself. Truth is the highest currency, truth is the reward in of itself. Truth trumps all things and all must be educated of the truth.

Yeah! Why do atheists love the truth so much? Isn't that discrimination against frauds and liars?

Well because atheists are evidence based creatures, therefore it is rhetorical. That which demands evidence will most likely become atheist, as god appears as a god of the gaps, requiring more faith than ufos.

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30 Apr 2023, 7:02 am

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Which is, "Denounce Anything That Does Not Fit In With Lecia_Wynter's World View".

No the real reason is because talking about the downside of organized religion is extremely boring explored territory. Its old hat and talked about thousands of times online already.

So you seem to be implying that you have started this thread not so much because the subject is your personal opinion, but that you are bored which discussing the real threat to humanity, which is religion.

RetroGamer87
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30 Apr 2023, 7:55 am

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

For the atheist, truth is a currency in of itself. Truth is the highest currency, truth is the reward in of itself. Truth trumps all things and all must be educated of the truth.

Yeah! Why do atheists love the truth so much? Isn't that discrimination against frauds and liars?

Well why do they want evidence? Why don't they just believe my claims that God is real and he needs money?

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The_Walrus
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30 Apr 2023, 8:33 am

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

But what about in 200 years when humans have spread to solar systems? What is the core tenat of atheism? What strong shared motives and motifs will be throughout the galaxy? What unifying principles?

This is confusing atheism with a system of belief. It isn't. It is a single belief which is characteristic of many different systems of belief, just like theism.

Theists do not have shared motives and unifying principles. A Hindu, a reform Jew, a Jehovah's Witness and an irreligious deist would struggle to agree on very much.

Of course someone can be an atheist and still have strong principles. Liberalism, conservatism, anarcho-communism, libertarianism, utilitarianism, cryptofascism, feminism, Posadism, environmentalism, National Bolshevism - these are all ideologies which do not require theism. It isn't clear to me why we would want unifying principles, and especially when we are spread over interstellar space. Personally, I want to live in a pluralistic society, where a variety of views are encouraged, in the hope that the better ones will become more popular and society will get progressively better.

ToughDiamond
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30 Apr 2023, 9:06 am

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

ToughDiamond wrote:

No because people that don't know the downside of organized religion are not worth talking to.

Even it that were so, it doesn't preclude saying things such as "atheism has the downside x, but theism of course also has that downside." If we censor all statements of the obvious, some logical and valid arguments become impossible to set down.

I would also think that it's not people who simply don't know the downside of religion that aren't worth talking to - if anything, it's the people who don't WANT to know who aren't worth the trouble, because they won't listen. Informing ignorant but open-minded people can be well worth the effort.

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30 Apr 2023, 1:14 pm

The 19th century German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche predicted the moral crisis that would follow his notion of "the death of God", that is Christianity and other religions becoming unbelievable because of the achievements of science. This moral crisis was materialised subsequently with the advent of new quasi religious ideologies who would seek to validate themselves through the citation of science. Namely Fascism and Marxism. Fascism cited darwinism while Marxism cited historiography, sociology and economics as "science" that legitimised their rationale. The phenomenon of citing pseudo-science in order to legitimise ones philosophy is called scientism and it is as old as science itself. This phenomenon continues to this day. Usually the same people who declare themselves as atheists are the people who believe that there are more than two genders, for example. They are atheists but they believe imaginary things because this or that "study" coming from an obscure field of social "sciences" claims so.

beady
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01 May 2023, 7:23 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Lecia_Wynter wrote:

For the atheist, truth is a currency in of itself. Truth is the highest currency, truth is the reward in of itself. Truth trumps all things and all must be educated of the truth.

Yeah! Why do atheists love the truth so much? Isn't that discrimination against frauds and liars?

Well why do they want evidence? Why don't they just believe my claims that God is real and he needs money?

Thank you for this.
*voted* into the WP humorous hall of fame.

beady
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01 May 2023, 7:30 am

Humans as we know them today are 240,000-300,000 years old.

Religion is about 4,000 years old.

Something other than religion UNIFIED those people enough to survive for a hell of a long time.
I’m not worried about a godless future.

ToughDiamond
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01 May 2023, 1:59 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:

To some extent those things did happen, but I don't think that overall the world was plunged into a state of moral vacuum. There had always been hierarchies with somewhat brutal ways and wacky theories touted as the objective truth. Alongside the new harm, there was also new good - we became free to weigh up the actual effects of our behaviour rather than just comparing it to ancient dogma. Thus we no longer have to persecute those who do no harm, and we can question the validity of rules without fear of being smitten by deities.

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