ASD and extreme political beliefs

Post Reply New Topic

Repeating a claim doesn't strengthen it.



Yes, the Overton window shifts over time.



It's almost like you know they're going to rely on racist dog whistles.

GENEVA (28 September 2023) – Systemic racism against people of African descent pervades America’s police forces and criminal justice system, and US authorities must urgently step up efforts to reform them, the UN International Independent Expert Mechanism to Advance Racial Justice and Equality in the Context of Law Enforcement said in a new report today.

The report follows the Mechanism’s official country visit to the United States earlier this year, during which it heard testimonies from 133 affected individuals, visited five detention centers and held meetings with civil society groups and a range of government and police authorities in the District of Columbia, Atlanta, Los Angeles, Chicago, Minneapolis and New York City.

“In all the cities we went to, we heard dozens of heart-breaking testimonies on how victims do not get justice or redress. This is not new, and it’s unacceptable,” said Tracie Keesee, an expert member of the Mechanism. ”This is a systemic issue that calls for a systemic response. All actors involved, including police departments and police unions, must join forces to combat the prevailing impunity.”

The report found that racism in the US - a legacy of slavery, the slave trade, and one hundred years of legalized apartheid that followed slavery’s abolition – continues to exist today in the form of racial profiling, police killings, and many other human rights violations.

The report said that Black people in America are three times more likely to be killed by police than whites, and 4.5 times more likely to be incarcerated.

It also said that of the more than 1,000 cases of killings by police each year, only 1% result in officers being charged. If use of force regulations in the US are not reformed in accordance with international standards, many of these killings will continue, the report warned.

“We reject the “bad apple” theory. There is strong evidence suggesting that the abusive behaviour of some individual police officers is part of a broader and menacing pattern,” said Juan Mendez, an expert member of the Mechanism. “Law enforcement and criminal justice institutions in the United States share and reproduce values, attitudes and stereotypes of US society and institutions. These must be reformed.”

The report said that armed police officers should not be the default first responders to every social issue in the US, including for mental health crises, homelessness, and for controlling the traffic or discipline at schools. The report asserted that this needs to change by putting in place alternative responses to policing.

“During our meetings with police officers, we repeatedly heard concerns that officers’ mental health was being affected not only by work overload, but also by racism and racial discrimination inside police departments,” Keesee said. “Expecting law enforcement officers to respect and protect human rights also presupposes a culture of respect and wellbeing within the ranks.”

The report calls on police agencies to address the issues of systemic racism against Black law enforcement officers and issues of white supremacy ideology inside these agencies.

The report cited with profound concern instances of children of African descent being sentenced to life imprisonment, pregnant women in prison being chained during childbirth, and persons held in solitary confinement for 10 years. It also described how some people of African descent have been prevented from voting years after completing their sentences and how some are subjected to forced labour in “plantation-style” prisons, which constitutes a contemporary form slavery.

The Mechanism condemned not only the general overuse of incarceration and criminal supervision in the US, but also the appalling overrepresentation of people of African descent in the criminal justice system.

“The testimonies and figures we received represent the worst part of a racist criminal justice system that erodes all efforts towards addressing systemic racism,” Mendez said. “Our findings point to the critical need for comprehensive reform.”

The report made 30 recommendations to the US and all its jurisdictions, including the more than 18,000 police agencies in the country. It also highlighted local and federal good practices and recognised efforts the current administration and some local governments are doing to combat the issue.

“We encourage the good practices to be reproduced in other parts of the country. We look forward to continuing to cooperate with the United States to implement these recommendations,” Mendez said.

Could you explain what those 2 positions which you think were racially motivated entailed? It’s a bit difficult to form an opinion about the lack of arrests.

It seems like you are basing your views solely on your experiences when the evidence demonstrates that there are issues with systemic racism directed against specific races, especially in the criminal justice system, which does not include white people.

I’m really sorry you experienced that.

It sounds like lack of evidence may have been a problem if no arrests were made. There’s no question that individuals have bad experiences - even with law enforcement, but it doesn’t change the fact that systemic racism against nonwhites continues to be a massive problem in society.

Lastly, just because there's a disparity in incarceration/police shooting rates doesn't mean systemic racism is to blame (I've had multiple black coworkers through the years say they've never been afraid they'd get shot by a cop. They said no matter what color you are, if you don't give the cop reason to shoot you, the cop won't shoot you)

These are among the findings of a Pew Research Center survey of 9,654 U.S. adults conducted June 4-10, 2020, using the Center’s American Trends Panel, in conjunction with the Center’s American News Pathways project.

I’m a bit puzzled why you claimed that you wouldn’t have remained unarrested if you did the same thing when you don’t know if these perpetrators would’ve been arrested or not since no report was made, not that I’m blaming you for not making a report(!). I wasn’t claiming that you weren’t a victim. I was merely pointing out that experiences don’t mean that systemic racism doesn’t exist and isn’t a real problem which is what this conversation was about.

It seems like you’re mostly relying on anecdotal evidence. It’s true that the problem isn’t solely about systemic racism in the criminal justice system but, rather, in many facets of society. It’s a complex issue.

I found this interesting:



https://www.pewresearch.org/social-tren ... -movement/

My overall point: there’s a lot of data and research out there which demonstrates that white people are, in general, privileged. It doesn’t mean that there isn’t variation on an individual level.

There was the CitiBike nurse story in New York City. A white nurse rented a CitiBike to get home after her shift. Before she had a chance to take possession of the bike, however, she got filmed getting into an altercation with a group of black teens. The ringleader of the black teens claimed she was trying to steal the bike from him.

Once the facts came out, it turned out they were trying to steal the bike from her.

By the time the facts came out, it unfortunately was too late. She had already gotten suspended from her job (and had to go into hiding because of death threats). All because the media jumped to conclusions (and smeared her as a racist based on false evidence).

If a white person isn't even able to get filmed getting into a disagreement with minorities without getting suspended from work/getting death threats, surely a white person would get arrested if they committed attempted murder on a minority (in a spot with security cameras and witnesses no less).

The CitiBike nurse story also illustrates another crucial (but unfortunate) fact: When there's a dispute between a white person and a minority, society automatically views the white person as the instigator (which is all the more reason for a white person to refrain from reporting a minority he/she got victimized by).

Students of color are often concentrated in schools with fewer resources. Schools with 90 percent or more students of color spend $733 less per student per year than schools with 90 percent or more white students.

From 2011 to 2021, the percentage of adults age 25 and older who had completed high school increased for all race and Hispanic origin groups. During this period, high school completion increased from 92.4% to 95.1% for the non-Hispanic White population; from 84.5% to 90.3% for the Black population; from 88.6% to 92.9% for the Asian population; and from 64.3% to 74.2% for the Hispanic population.

From 2011 to 2021, the percentage of adults age 25 and older with a bachelor’s degree or higher increased from 34.0% to 41.9% for the non-Hispanic White population; from 19.9% to 28.1% for the Black population; from 50.3% to 61.0% for the Asian population; and from 14.1% to 20.6% for the Hispanic population.

The criminal justice system shouldn’t be about making victims happy/satisfied/whatever. It’s about keeping people safe and, ideally, rehabilitation which, when done well (e.g. Scandinavian model), has a high success rate.

Why not both? Why would we want to potentially intentionally leave victims broke with PTSD? “You are not the priority” victimizes the victims again.

Personally I have no moral issue with the death penalty in certain situations. Practically is another matter. Making a person a martyr is the example that jumps to mind.

Not all victims want the same thing. I don’t want the same thing that other victims would when it comes to my own experiences and my own life with PTSD. I think the system needs to be much better for victims as far as reporting and trials go which would encourage more people to come forward, follow through, and be less traumatized by the process, but ultimately, I don’t believe a victim’s feelings should play a role in sentencing. Feelings aren’t consistent from person to person or even for the same individual. Sometimes a person might want a far harsher punishment than is warranted and sometimes less.

I’d prefer for my feelings to be left out of it completely because I wouldn’t want that additional responsibility on my shoulders. I’d prefer determinations to be based purely on facts and specific, objective criteria because I think that would be more fair. Sometimes, perhaps especially with long-term abuse and/or where Stockholm syndrome is/was present, victims may have trouble understanding their feelings, too.

Furthermore, in the society I envision, it wouldn't matter if the victim didn't report the crime. Anyone who witnessed the crime (and wanted justice for the victim) would get a free pass to organize a public execution.